Yamaha to Honda in MotoGP?

[mikstr]

Originally Posted by dabyabby

some of you

don`t you mean "one of you"?

[sqd8r]

Originally Posted by mikstr

how could they not be? After all, they're spending money and not getting any results Championship-wise. Isn't that the goal of the exercise (ie. a make-work program for acoountants)?

Now, about those diagrams Larry.....

Well excluding the venerable RC30 isn't that the V4 lineage today?

[Furious Styles]

Was gonna say the same as Larry...
People always pick on Honda. I guess you've learned to accept mediocrity from Suzuki and Kawasaki. Other than a wet race win from the Mole, whens the last time they even challenged for a win? Have either brand been on the podium this year? Top 5?

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by dabyabby

Actually the Honda V4 is not the stellar success in modern MotoGp as some of you think it is!!! Actually the better configuration for Honda is the V5!!!!

That's because Honda's investment in the RC45 paid off as equity in the RC211V V5...

Ducati sat out the first year of MotoGp buying into Piero
Ferrari's High Performance Engineering concern because they had 0.0
invested in a V4 design... Suzuki also struggled because they also had
0.0 invested in a V4 design... Kenny Roberts thought he could whip a
V5 with the help of some very talented Formula One veterans but
without any prior V4 investment their design suffered high internal
friction... you have to put your dues in MotoGp engine design and that
is where Honda's RC45 paid dividends...

[waphill]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

... however I hope they will
release a new race bred V4 instead...

Yes....Yes, I think we have established this.

[916WI]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

That's because Honda's investment in the RC45 paid off as equity in the RC211V V5...

Ducati sat out the first year of MotoGp buying into Piero
Ferrari's High Performance Engineering concern because they had 0.0
invested in a V4 design... Suzuki also struggled because they also had
0.0 invested in a V4 design... Kenny Roberts thought he could whip a
V5 with the help of some very talented Formula One veterans but
without any prior V4 investment their design suffered high internal
friction... you have to put your dues in MotoGp engine design and that
is where Honda's RC45 paid dividends...

I guess that's one way to justify the massive amount of money that Honda threw away financing that program. With the resounding ass kicking that the RC45 was on the receiving end of while it was "competing", the winning of championships is one way in which Honda's investment did not pay off.

[nomo]

If it were possible to get an honest answer from Honda engineers , they would admit that the RC45 was a nightmare and not just financially , even though I would give one of my huge testicles to own one .

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by 916WI

I guess that's one way to justify the massive amount of money that Honda threw away financing that program. With the resounding ass kicking that the RC45 was on the receiving end of while it was "competing", the winning of championships is one way in which Honda's investment did not pay off.

Honda says 24 Titles is proof that their investment did pay off... just show
them another 750 4 stroke with that level of success???

4 Isle of Man TT F1 titles...

3 Isle of Man Senior titles...

3 World Endurance Championships...

5 Suzuka 8 Hour wins...

2 AMA Superbike Championship...

2 Daytona 200 wins...

1 World Superbike Championship...

2 Australian Superbike Championships...

1 Macau Grand Prix...

1 Ulster Grand Prix

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by nomo

If it were possible to get an honest answer from Honda engineers , they would admit that the RC45 was a nightmare and not just financially , even though I would give one of my huge testicles to own one .

One ride and a little RC45 bug will bite your butt for life...

[916WI]

Larry......for the talent & cash that was thrown at that program--also taking into consideration the length of time that a major player like Honda campaigned that bike, your list of "titles" simply proves my point. That bike was an embarrassment to HRC...........

[Dezmo]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

Honda is super happy with V4 in MotoGp

Oh really Larry?

Originally Posted by Mat Oxley in RRW

Dovizioso has been quite critical of Honda's 2009 RC212V MotoGP bike. He believes the basic architecture of the bike is wrong and the only way ahead is to start from zero, new engine, everything.
"The balance is completely wrong between the front and the rear" Dovizioso says. "The balance is one of the biggest problems, every race its the same problem. The bike moves around, the movement comes from the rear because the engine weight is not in the perfect position." For now, Dovizioso is doing everything he can to improve the 2009 bike such as switching to ohlins suspension.
Of course, Dovi isnt the only one who complains. Teammate Dani Pedrosa also speaks his mind when discussing the RC212V. Pedrosa's biggest bugbear is the engine's peaky power delivery: though maybe that shouldnt be a surprise because the RCV almost certainly has more horsepower than any other MotoGP bike.
Both Dovi and Pedro are analytical riders with precise and economical riding techniques, which is exactly whats required with the current breed of 800cc MotoGP bikes which demand riders to stay smooth for high corner speeds. But until Honda engineers improve the RCV, it seems, neither has a real chance of fighting for anything more than occasional wins.

[mikstr]

woohoo, this is just getting good!!!

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by 916WI

Larry......for the talent & cash that was thrown at that program--also taking into consideration the length of time that a major player like Honda campaigned that bike, your list of "titles" simply proves my point. That bike was an embarrassment to HRC...........

Negative... no one at HRC hangs their head in shame when discussing the RC45... it still is a point of pride...

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by sqd8r

Well excluding the venerable RC30 isn't that the V4 lineage today?

the RC30 was made to win suzuka soley

FWIW the V4 750's won suzuka

85,86,87,88,89,91,92,94,95,97,98,99

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by Dezmo

Oh really Larry?

so what does your quote have to do with engine config? the motor could be too far forward but that has nothing to do with config

[Dezmo]

Originally Posted by mrgrn

so what does your quote have to do with engine config? the motor could be too far forward but that has nothing to do with config

try reading it again, and this time try to comprehend the 3 seperate gripes dealing specifically with the engine.

Besides, Larry says they are happy, my post shows that they arent, regardless of engine config

[mikstr]

isn`t the gripe about the 212`s engine position essentially the same one that was adressed at the RC45 (based on a few articles/tests/rider interviews I had read years ago; thought I`d allude to the sources before the Meltdown Kid decides to have a go at me, lol)?

[mrgrn]

dovi belives the basic architecture is wrong sure he does LMAO

if he was the genius he would be building them not riding them

everytime he loses the front it is the V4 correct

the bike is solid and certainly needs some tweaking but i hardly would call the engine a flop

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by mikstr

isn`t the gripe about the 212`s engine position essentially the same one that was adressed at the RC45 (based on a few articles/tests/rider interviews I had read years ago; thought I`d allude to the sources before the Meltdown Kid decides to have a go at me, lol)?

it is the same gripe ALL riders complain about lack of feel regards less of engine config

the year b4 rossi yamaha'd the factory riders said the same of that inline too for example, sometimes riders push the front too hard and lose it and blaming the bike is always first choice

[mikstr]

hey, I thought I was on your ignore list, WTF???????