The Rossi to Ducati thing starts gaining steam

[Jami6989]

Originally Posted by Furious Styles

So cut off your nose to spite your face?
In the end noone remembers who sponsored it unless you win.

Actually, I remember it cuz it was sliding across the track and into the gravel when the pressure was on. For the record, HE DIDN'T WIN!

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

You old dog Larry....you measured the Honda from the crank line.

PS what was the wheelbase of both?

Yamaha 800 M1 sports a 1430mm wheelbase... whereas the RC212V sports
1450mm... this created a Yamaha with similar weight distribution to the bike
on which the Bridgestone tires had been developed, Stoner's Ducati V4.

Quote Julian Ryder:

"Yamaha have raced on Michelins throughout the current MotoGP era -
until now, that is. Rossi battled with Stoner as hard as he could in
2007, but he soon realised that whatever he did was going to be undone
by the characteristics of the Bridgestone tyres Casey was using. The
Bridgestones had been developed for the Ducati's more rearward weight
distribution. With a stiffer carcass they could take more power
mid-corner, giving Stoner a big advantage in acceleration out onto the
straights. To work, this required a front tyre that still gripped even
when unloaded by weight transfer under acceleration.

Valentino success fully swapped to Bridgestone at the first test of
2008. He wasn't interested in any old Bridgestone tyre, either (there
are several families); he just wanted to get onto the same 'family' of
constructions that Casey was using. Testing seemed to go well and the
bike arrived in Qatar looking just like it had the year before, but
with Bridgestone stickers. However, the race didn't go to plan for
Rossiand Yamaha: the set-up wasn't right, the rear tyre started to
spin up and Valentino finished a fighting fifth, beaten by Stoner and
his own Michelin-shod team-mate, Jorge Lorenzo."

"What followed was a change of strategy. Tohru Ubukata, Bridgstone's
technical boss, conceded: 'After Qatar we had a BIG meeting.' By the
next race, at Jerez, changes were under way. Rossi set his bike up
with the rear axle further forward in the swingarm adjusters; the
front was different too, with the head stock pushed to the front of
its adjustment. Effectively the core weight of the bike, the center
including the engine, had just been moved backwards by about 35mm.
This time there was more weight over the rear of the bike so that, as
the tyre wore, it had the weight which it needed to keep gripping, and
the front didn't let go. And Rossi made it onto the podium."

"All this created a Yamaha with similar weight distribution to the bike
on which the tyres had been developed, Stoner's Ducati. It also meant
that Rossi had to change his riding style to accept what must be a very
vague front-end feeling and to get on the power earlier and harder,
again just like Stoner. With the bike putting its weight where the
tyres wanted it, and with the resulting riding style programmed in,
Rossi started winning. Yamaha were now getting podium places with two
completely different set-ups on one design of motorcycle."


So with similar weight distributions there goes the last advantage the I4
had over the V4... and that means Furasawa has no more excuses not to
explore the V4...

[cheekybloke]

Originally Posted by Latebraker

He's also mad they are bringing in Spies to ride the M1. Rossi is really turning into a drama queen.

Did Lawson act this way when he had Rainey for a teammate?

Eh where did this insider information come from or is it just more armchair expert oppinion? Why should he be upset that Spies is in MotoGP it's not that he's ever going to be a threat.

[Latebraker]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

So with similar weight distributions there goes the last advantage the I4
had over the V4... and that means Furasawa has no more excuses not to
explore the V4...

They still have a braking and cornerspeed advantage over the V4's.

[Latebraker]

Originally Posted by cheekybloke

Eh where did this insider information come from or is it just more armchair expert oppinion? Why should he be upset that Spies is in MotoGP it's not that he's ever going to be a threat.

MOTO-RACING - NOYES: Valentino's Seven-Year Itch Coming Early - SPEEDtv.com


I reckon if Spies is in front of anybody he'll be tough to pass on the brakes, especially for those not on a Yamaha.

[Furious Styles]

Originally Posted by Jami6989

Actually, I remember it cuz it was sliding across the track and into the gravel when the pressure was on. For the record, HE DIDN'T WIN!

Actually thats your hater spirit that keeps it alive and well in your memory... the rest just think of titles.

[cheekybloke]

Originally Posted by Furious Styles

Why is this an issue if he's alread signed a contract 2010 with Yamaha? Just something to act all school girlish about?



This is like the LeBron thing... who gives a damn it was almost 2 years away when they started running their mouth about it.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with you this whole thread is a waste of bandwidth. Larry all yours mate only you can make this thread worthwhile.

[cheekybloke]

Originally Posted by Latebraker

MOTO-RACING - NOYES: Valentino's Seven-Year Itch Coming Early - SPEEDtv.com


I reckon if Spies is in front of anybody he'll be tough to pass on the brakes, especially for those not on a Yamaha.

I'm shocked
I don't understand why he would have an issue with Yamaha moving Spies to Tech3, Lorenzo yea I understand his consternation, childish maybe but he needs to understand that Yamaha is a business and doesn't revolve around him, there is always a future beyond Rossi to prepare for. As for developing the bike and others getting the benifit that's part the reason why he was paid Millions to ride it. Vale get over it mate. As much as I like him as a rider and character he's in the twilight of his career as a racer and needs to help bring on other riders IMO it's part of being in a team.

[Latebraker]

I for one hoped he would finish his career with Yamaha, they probably gave him as much freedom as any of the teams would let him have. I think if you are the best it shouldn't matter who your teammate is.

[cheekybloke]

Originally Posted by Latebraker

I for one hoped he would finish his career with Yamaha, they probably gave him as much freedom as any of the teams would let him have. I think if you are the best it shouldn't matter who your teammate is.

I agree. if he stays with Yamaha he stays if not, Oh well life goes on it's only racing not life and death.
I think new competitive blood at whatever level and change is only good for MotoGP it's stagnant as it is.
Maybe a rule stating a rider can only stay with a team for say 3 years at a time may make the series more interesting (just a spur of the moment idea BTW).

[DesperateSP2]

I often wonder how much money Marlboro would need to put into the whole operation to make it feasible. In 2007 Ducati brushed rumors aside simply stating that the whole Rossi operation would be "far too expensive". But they were bagging the world championship while paying Stoner chips that year...
Yamaha did everything to keep Rossi satisfied. Problem is this year Lorenzo is becoming very competitive: whatever this is due to the M1 being by far the best bike of the bunch or just his skills it doesn't matter. Rossi is a genius pilot but like all great pilots he wants non-threatening team mates. Agostini-Hailwood, Reutemann-Jones, Senna-Prost, Fogarty-Chili... when you put two great pilots in the same team they will inevitably clash destroying the team balance until one is sacked or retires. Yamaha is between the hammer and anvil: Rossi has made no secret that he won't ride for much longer because he wants to try his hand at car racing. In that case they want to keep young promising riders like Lorenzo and Spies at hand. On the other hand what if Lorenzo or Spies turns out to be a genuine talent capable of rivaling Rossi? Keeping them in a subordinate position is guarantee that Honda will soon come knocking at his door with a good offer. What if the young rider you scared away beats you next year?
(Yes I was being sarcastic )

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Latebraker

They still have a braking and cornerspeed advantage over the V4's.

True... only because Yamaha spins the long and ponderous crankshaft
backwards... but that trick cost an extra shaft which takes extra HP away
from the rear wheel...

“We have to work, because our bike is fantastic, but we don't have
enough horsepower,” stated Rossi. “What I mean is the setting is good
in the corners, but we need some extra power because we lost a little
bit from Brno.”

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by cheekybloke

Why should he be upset that Spies is in MotoGP it's not that he's ever going to be a threat.

Why should Rossi develop his rivals machine??? Rossi and Burgess have
transformed the Yamaha "no hoper" into an all-a-rounder... it was the
same concern that bugged Doohan during the Big Bang NSR...

[bababoy]

maybe thats rossi's gripe. he puts a lot of work in developing the bike only to see his hard work going to the guy next door in the pits. i dunno...

if rossi goes. who will leave yammy first - lorenzo or spies? they'll probably be banging heads too as to who is the no.1 rider.

[Ceolwulf]

relevant

[Old Baldy]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

Yamaha 800 M1 sports a 1430mm wheelbase... whereas the RC212V sports
1450mm... this created a Yamaha with similar weight distribution to the bike
on which the Bridgestone tires had been developed, Stoner's Ducati V4.

Quote Julian Ryder:

"Yamaha have raced on Michelins throughout the current MotoGP era -
until now, that is. Rossi battled with Stoner as hard as he could in
2007, but he soon realised that whatever he did was going to be undone
by the characteristics of the Bridgestone tyres Casey was using. The
Bridgestones had been developed for the Ducati's more rearward weight
distribution. With a stiffer carcass they could take more power
mid-corner, giving Stoner a big advantage in acceleration out onto the
straights. To work, this required a front tyre that still gripped even
when unloaded by weight transfer under acceleration.

Valentino success fully swapped to Bridgestone at the first test of
2008. He wasn't interested in any old Bridgestone tyre, either (there
are several families); he just wanted to get onto the same 'family' of
constructions that Casey was using. Testing seemed to go well and the
bike arrived in Qatar looking just like it had the year before, but
with Bridgestone stickers. However, the race didn't go to plan for
Rossiand Yamaha: the set-up wasn't right, the rear tyre started to
spin up and Valentino finished a fighting fifth, beaten by Stoner and
his own Michelin-shod team-mate, Jorge Lorenzo."

"What followed was a change of strategy. Tohru Ubukata, Bridgstone's
technical boss, conceded: 'After Qatar we had a BIG meeting.' By the
next race, at Jerez, changes were under way. Rossi set his bike up
with the rear axle further forward in the swingarm adjusters; the
front was different too, with the head stock pushed to the front of
its adjustment. Effectively the core weight of the bike, the center
including the engine, had just been moved backwards by about 35mm.
This time there was more weight over the rear of the bike so that, as
the tyre wore, it had the weight which it needed to keep gripping, and
the front didn't let go. And Rossi made it onto the podium."

"All this created a Yamaha with similar weight distribution to the bike
on which the tyres had been developed, Stoner's Ducati. It also meant
that Rossi had to change his riding style to accept what must be a very
vague front-end feeling and to get on the power earlier and harder,
again just like Stoner. With the bike putting its weight where the
tyres wanted it, and with the resulting riding style programmed in,
Rossi started winning. Yamaha were now getting podium places with two
completely different set-ups on one design of motorcycle."


So with similar weight distributions there goes the last advantage the I4
had over the V4... and that means Furasawa has no more excuses not to
explore the V4...

ahh, yeah, I remember now. This article was soon after the Bridgestone switch, and Yamaha chose to "replicate" the chassis characteristics of the bikes running the same tire.

Nothing to do with the inherent configuration of the motor....at all.

Would you care to share the distance from the crank centerline to the countershaft sprocket for both motors, or from the front of the motor to the countershaft sprocket, or from the front of the motor to the rear of the motor? I'd be willing to put a few bucks down with you that "your" config loses on all of those measurements. Do you have the numbers?

[Old Baldy]

on second thoughts, don't worry about it, Larry. We've been through this a thousand times already, and I'm not that interested any more....sorry to waste everyone's time.

Back on track....so Rossi cannot and does not want to switch to Ducati. I don;t 100% believe this. He would LOVE to ride an Italian bike to win the Rider's Championship and for the challenge as he did when he left Honda with the then-best-bike on the circuit.

IMO.

[robfromsc]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

True... only because Yamaha spins the long and ponderous crankshaft
backwards... but that trick cost an extra shaft which takes extra HP away
from the rear wheel...

“We have to work, because our bike is fantastic, but we don't have
enough horsepower,” stated Rossi. “What I mean is the setting is good
in the corners, but we need some extra power because we lost a little
bit from Brno.”

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

Would you care to share the distance from the crank centerline to the countershaft sprocket for both motors, or from the front of the motor to the countershaft sprocket, or from the front of the motor to the rear of the motor? I'd be willing to put a few bucks down with you that "your" config loses on all of those measurements. Do you have the numbers?

As far as I can measure the distance from the crank center to countershaft
center is 10mm shorter on the I4 versus the V4... but I can't see how it
matters anymore when Furasawa elected to moved his beloved short I4 a
whopping 35mm aft in order for Rossi's Bridgestone to come into working
range...

I think it just another reason for Rossi to consider Ducati because he would
not only enjoy a bike with more top speed but also enjoy a bike with weight
bias that favors the spec tire rule... not to mention it is a proven winner...

[Old Baldy]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

I think it just another reason for Rossi to consider Ducati because he would
not only enjoy a bike with more top speed but also enjoy a bike with weight
bias that favors the spec tire rule... not to mention it is a proven winner...

err.....ok, ........we'll just ignore the current season and last season's race results, should we?