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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:13 AM
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I liked the comments from the Ducati CEO concerning what some techs said when the 916 was first introduced "looks like a bit of a girls bike" as the styling was such a departure from the muscular 888
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
Yeah well, as the 'new for '03' 1098 would hold for three years and the stepping off the SSSA platform of the 1000 whatever they wanted to call it would be dated today forcing a change to something else.


*Maybe my beer logic isn't working. I'll re read this tomorrow and likely make the same marketing mistake Duc did with the 999.

their SSSA was stolen from Hondas rc30 and although it looks ace on about any bike it was funny for a company that never rode enduarnce so i chuckle on their trademark look was a faux one at that

from what i have read the 999 arm was better and is much liter and easier to work on over the 1098's and with that said people still want looks over function including me
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Old 09-18-2009, 03:11 AM
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:28 AM
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I agree the 999 is a superb bike to ride. I would have picked it if it weren't for the unbearable heat radiating from that underseat car muffler (which incidentally has been copied by BMW on the R1200S) and the fact that at the time it would have left me completely stripped for cash.
It was a big step forward from the previous bikes.
I also could never get along with the 916/955/whatever family looks. Call me what you like but I have always preferred the 888 looks.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:01 AM
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I think that article missed a point that it itself raised, ie. the 999 was simply too fncken expensive.

The 1098 was nearly half the price when it was introduced and naturally people bought them. If the 999 (a higher quality bike according to the article) had been not so incredibly expensive they would have sold ...

If people did not buy the 999 just because of the lack of SSS, then one has to wonder at what sort of people buy Ducati superbikes ... I thought track inspired riders bought them?
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:03 AM
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"their SSSA was stolen from Hondas rc30 and although it looks ace on about any bike it was funny for a company that never rode enduarnce so i chuckle on their trademark look was a faux one at that"

I agree it looks like Ducati pinched the single-sided swing arm from Honda but perhaps they didn't. I have just picked up my Moto Guzzi book (for the first time in a couple of years at least) to look up the name of the Guzzi that had a SSSA in the 1950s. It was the Galletto.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soslow View Post
"their SSSA was stolen from Hondas rc30 and although it looks ace on about any bike it was funny for a company that never rode enduarnce so i chuckle on their trademark look was a faux one at that"

I agree it looks like Ducati pinched the single-sided swing arm from Honda but perhaps they didn't. I have just picked up my Moto Guzzi book (for the first time in a couple of years at least) to look up the name of the Guzzi that had a SSSA in the 1950s. It was the Galletto.

what does that change with their using the SSSA as their icon on their bikes that was inteded for endurance racing?

it is like wearing dog tags when never serving
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn View Post
their SSSA was stolen from Hondas rc30
Honda didnt invent or design the SSSA, Elf did. Honda leased the rights for production.

IIRC, honda attempted to sue ducati but they proved their design was different, and pointed out that Honda didnt own the patent anyway.

and Honda has put the arm on plenty of non-endurance racers: VFR, Hawk, Goldwing 1800, and the new CB1000R
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmo View Post
Honda didnt invent or design the SSSA, Elf did. Honda leased the rights for production. IIRC, honda attempted to sue ducati but they proved their design was different, and pointed out that Honda didnt own the patent anyway.

i know. Honda used the SSSA for endurance racing, ducati did not

i don't recall saying Honda invented the SSSA, did i????

it is tacky IMO to rely on a design meant for one thing only and then not use it for that and then beat your chest 2 decades later how that is your icon. sad really but ducati apparently can't sell superbikes without a SSSA and i find that comical.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmo View Post
Honda didnt invent or design the SSSA, Elf did. Honda leased the rights for production.

IIRC, honda attempted to sue ducati but they proved their design was different, and pointed out that Honda didnt own the patent anyway.

and Honda has put the arm on plenty of non-endurance racers: VFR, Hawk, Goldwing 1800, and the new CB1000R

so has triumph etc

apples and oranges really as when was the last time we saw a goldwing in WSBK????
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn View Post
their SSSA was stolen from Hondas rc30 and although it looks ace on about any bike it was funny for a company that never rode enduarnce so i chuckle on their trademark look was a faux one at that

from what i have read the 999 arm was better and is much liter and easier to work on over the 1098's and with that said people still want looks over function including me
I must agree. the 999 in most ways is a better bike than the older 916 series bikes especially for taller riders. Styling tastes of us buyers still like the single side look though. Yeah it's funny that it's the endurance racing thoughts that inspired it as a highly tweaked twin race engine will likely not make it the distance before going bang.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fart View Post
I must agree. the 999 in most ways is a better bike than the older 916 series bikes especially for taller riders. Styling tastes of us buyers still like the single side look though. Yeah it's funny that it's the endurance racing thoughts that inspired it as a highly tweaked twin race engine will likely not make it the distance before going bang.

i thought it was the banks of daytona that made it go bang? J/K

don't get me wrong, SSSA lover here for sure but try putting a useless SSSA on a RC51 and you will be shot on site but that will not stop me either

i hope the next ducati is not a 1400cc trellis twin with SSSA is all, maybe time for something off the path IMO. It might make or break the line but Norman vincent peale said something about a person who risks nothing is nothing. they can't grow, can't learn, they are chained by their own emotions and are slaves to their own image

something like that
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn View Post
so has triumph etc

apples and oranges really as when was the last time we saw a goldwing in WSBK????
To add to this comment, in 2002 Triumph went to a DSSA that was seven (that is SEVEN!!) pounds lighter than the SSSA assembly overall on the Centennial Edition Daytona 955.

2002 was a one-year wonder and in 2003 all the Daytonas had the SSSA again. Customers preferred it even though it was inferior.

For the few guys that raced the Daytona around that time, guess which type of swingarm was preferred...
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmo View Post
Honda didnt invent or design the SSSA, Elf did. Honda leased the rights for production.

IIRC, honda attempted to sue ducati but they proved their design was different, and pointed out that Honda didnt own the patent anyway.

and Honda has put the arm on plenty of non-endurance racers: VFR, Hawk, Goldwing 1800, and the new CB1000R

OH, elf tried to sue Honda not Honda sue ducati
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 05:41 PM
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"I must agree. The 999 in most ways is a better bike than the older 916 series bikes especially for taller riders. Styling tastes of us buyers still like the single side look though. Yeah it's funny that it's the endurance racing thoughts that inspired it as a highly tweaked twin race engine will likely not make it the distance before going bang ." A highly tweaked (DUCATI) twin race engine will likely not make it the distance before going bang ! The RC-51 has won the 8 Hrs. of Suzuka and the 24 Hrs. of Le Mans . What a bike !

Last edited by nomo; 09-19-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 06:18 PM
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Quote Andre De Cortanze the ambitious man behind the SSSA design...

"I wanted to get rid of every preconceived notion I had of what a
motorcycle should consist of and look like," he explained. "I wanted
to achieve four aims: lower the center of gravity, incorporate
'natural' antidive suspension, reduce weight and eliminate the chassis
completely as a separate entity. There were secondary objectives: to
achieve an ideal 50/50 weight distribution, lower the frontal aspect
to reduce the drag coefficient (Cx) and be able to change wheels
quickly. I also hoped to improve airflow to the radiator for more
effective cooling, and make the suspension and steering geometry
adjustable quickly and easily in a way that we had begun to accept as
normal on racing cars but which was largely unavailable then on
bikes."


Quote Alan Cathcart

ELF created an alternative motorcycle that would demonstrate its
superiority on the most demanding proving ground-international
roadracing competition.

ELF wasn't the first to experiment with alternative motorcycle chassis
designs, but it was the best publicized and, thanks to the French
petroleum company's vast resources, the best funded, too. Even if its
two-wheeled experiments didn't radically alter motorcycling's future.

ELF made chassis experimentation respectable. Inspired by ELF,
countless designers the world over were encouraged to create the
motorcycle of the future. ELF may not have been the first to dream up
some of the ideas it subsequently claimed credit for (and patented to
recoup some development costs by selling them to Honda), but it
legitimized the effort.

Honda agreed, signing a secret 1985 agreement to evaluate ELF's
patented designs with an eye toward production applications.
Commercial negotiations to lease the patents began, and an agreement
was signed in September 1987. The first Honda to incorporate ELF's
patented single-sided rear swingarm (henceforth dubbed 'Pro-Arm') had
already been introduced to the market.

Quote Rocket Ron Haslam

"You couldn't ride the ELF5 like a traditional GP racer, braking late
and steering with the rear on the way out. The ELF5 needed lean angle
to turn. When steered like a conventional GP bike, it felt heavy and
unresponsive. But apex the corner in a classical Mike Hailwood style
and steering became neutral, though still heavy. It was stable but far
from nimble, unlike the lighter-feeling ELF3, which felt much more
controllable."

What you got in exchange for heavy steering was unparalleled braking
stability. Because of the hub-center design's constant steering
geometry, you could brake harder and later than on any conventional
machine, and turn under braking without upsetting the handling.
Another advantage of the ELF5 was exceptional chassis adjustability;
all the usual suspension settings, plus head angle, wheelbase, trail,
ride height front and rear, as well as weight distribution were all
readily changeable.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 06:34 PM
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Ducati's 916 is based on a 1989 Honda design... back in 1992 Massimo
Tamburini felt so passionate about Mitsuyoshi Hohama's NR750 upon
which he promptly tore up his 916 design and started again...
amazingly, the NR prototype was first displayed in 1989! and
remained largely untouched when production commenced in 1992.
Honda's stunning 1992 NR750... complete with wedge-styling...
fox-eye headlights... single-sided swingarm and underseat
exhausts... that Tamburini freely admits copying the styling cues and
produced the 1994 916 with wedge styling... fox eyed headlights...
single sided swingarm and underseat exhaust...

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94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
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Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-18-2009, 11:40 PM
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Mgrn: I said 'iirc' Apparently I didnt.

Larry: anybody who looks confuses a 916 for a NR750 could be declared blind on the spot. By your logic I could claim that every motorcycle made was a copy of the 1st one because they have two wheels in tandem.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2009, 05:04 AM
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Aahh, the Never Ready 750. Oh so typical of Honda dumping millions into a technology with no market to peddle it in. When I was running the dealership back then the Honda staffers were waay pumped about this bike. When asked if I wanted to get on the wait list (with money up front) for one or two for my store I said no way. Pissed 'em of with that statement.
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Old 09-19-2009, 05:14 AM
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