I'm sure if you were to give the right builder $80,000 he could build a 916 that would absolutely decimate the Aprilia RSV4. As for your other question, can you show me an article where the RC45 outperformed a 916 SPS in a shootout??? If yes, please post the ENTIRE article
Talk talk talk... just show me an article where a kitted Ducati made the new
Aprilia V4 feel slow like the kitted RC45 did and then we got something to
discuss...
For that matter show me an article where a stock 916 out performed a stock
RC45 in a shoot out???
TWO magazine July 2008, "Classic Scrap" 916 SP vs RC45 was a pretty good article. Didn't really declare a winner, ultimately came down to chassis or engine basically. Writer said he felt the 916 SP was a better bike, but would personally pick the RC45 since it was more rare and he loved the engine.
Manufacturers have to take into consideration road legal requirements whereas a special doesn't. A more track biased bike is going to outshine or come close to a more modern road legal stock bike simply because the track bike has had the toss-the-wallet-at-it benefits of more aggressive tires, suspension, and performance upgrades that are geared to the performance side / track side of the spectrum as opposed to the more road biased balance a road legal bike has to meet.
Sportbike magazine ran a few articles years ago where they upgraded a 2-3 gen older model bike (R6 and R1 iirc) at a reasonable cost against the latest greatest and lap time differentials were in the 10ths. Those upgrades were modest suspension (revalved forks and maybe an ohlins rear), tires, gearing and footpegs etc. I'm not surprised when serious money is tossed at a bike and it does well against a stock bike; it should. Tires and gearing biased towards the track will make a noticeable difference alone.
I'm sure there are many on site who've tossed serious coin into a more track biased bike and noticed the significant difference; in the case of some modifications you are dropping seconds a lap.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
As for the respect thing, Larry you're a very interesting person and you remind me of an older gentlemen that lives in my area who I used to ride with on occasion BUT you're old enough to have learned 'respect' goes both ways. There are plenty of bikes out there that have earned 'respect' that you regularly rag on......food for thought.
you miss my point, any factory race bike from 10 years ago should be about on par with todays off the rack bike (some a little better some a little worse) this isnt anything special and in fact is by design. its called trickle down. I certainly would hope all manf. are putting the technology of their best race bikes 10 years ago into the bikes anyone can buy off the shelf.
to put out some claim about how fantasic that makes the 10yo full fact. race is kinda absurd. JMHO
now what would make it awesome is if a full factory race bike from 10years ago was better than the full factory race bike of today, but that isnt going to happen unless a manf. does something horribly wrong.
they are. take any RC30/RC45 race kitted and pit it against any 750cc race bike from today and you will see
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
+1 Even if it did deserve respect.......I wish Larry would practice what he preached and show respect to the I4 of the ZX7R AND GSXR and the V2 of the Ducati.......as each of the has amassed more "titles" that the RC45. The V2 of the Ducati 916 had 4 times as many WSBK CHAMPIONSHIPS, so I definitely think some respect for that machine is in order
they raced the same frame and lump motor for more then a decade
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
so the 916 engine/chassis raced for about a decade whereas the RC45 did so for six years... during this time, the 916 won four titles yet the 45 won but a single one.... which has the greater winning percentage? Hint: it`s NOT the RC....
For the record, I have NOTHING against the RC. However, I am sure I speak for many here when I say that it is simply a matter of being sick and tired of this one bike being held up to almost holy status (along with anything else that ever graced a V4 engine). Yes, V4s are great engines, and so are I4s, V-twins, triples,..... each has its pros and cons.... Also, any bike that has been the recipient of millions and millions of dollars of on-going development dollars will inevitably win races, no rocket science there....
the R7 is from 2000 not the modern bike you said and the rc45 was from 1999 so they are all more then a decade old
according to your claims a ripped gixxer 750 should eat a kitted rc45 right?
you know the lap record for a bike on the germany Nurringruing (sp ) is help by a RC30?
I have not seen many IOM or suzuka wins by the ducati camp or the gixxer or kawi 750's?
What claim? I think you have me confused with someone else.
Pretty sure the lap record for the Ring' is held by a GSXR 600 of all things, I think they are even selling replicas of the bike that did it. I think the RC30/45 are great bikes. You are right, there really is no modern 750cc 4 cylinder competition. The 750 era really ended around 2000, even Honda threw in the towel and went with the VTR1000. But then I would be willing to wager that a fully kitted RC51, with a world class rider on both would be a better machine than the RC30/45. But then thats pretty much racing in fantasy land.
The GSXR750 probably could stand a chance, but they simply aren't developed for racing anymore, nowhere to race them, so no advancement beyond the road bikes and trackday folk.
so the 916 engine/chassis raced for about a decade whereas the RC45 did so for six years... during this time, the 916 won four titles yet the 45 won but a single one.... which has the greater winning percentage? Hint: it`s NOT the RC....
For the record, I have NOTHING against the RC. However, I am sure I speak for many here when I say that it is simply a matter of being sick and tired of this one bike being held up to almost holy status (along with anything else that ever graced a V4 engine). Yes, V4s are great engines, and so are I4s, V-twins, triples,..... each has its pros and cons.... Also, any bike that has been the recipient of millions and millions of dollars of on-going development dollars will inevitably win races, no rocket science there....
OK, so let's have this then.
from 1988 to right b4 the perelli cup switch Honda made 3 different bikes with three different frames and different lumps and won more then just WSBK while ducati raced essentailly the same frame, same lump.
if you took the WSBK out for both Ducati and Honda in that period which makers bike(s) had more success?
Not taking anything away from the corse effort but let's look at the big picture not the little squinty one that portrays the trellis twin as the giant of all things winning
Honda's RC30/45/51 all won AMA, WSBK and Suzuka and a host of other serious races and series and the ducati could not finish daytona J/K
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
What claim? I think you have me confused with someone else.
Pretty sure the lap record for the Ring' is held by a GSXR 600 of all things, I think they are even selling replicas of the bike that did it. I think the RC30/45 are great bikes. You are right, there really is no modern 750cc 4 cylinder competition. The 750 era really ended around 2000, even Honda threw in the towel and went with the VTR1000. But then I would be willing to wager that a fully kitted RC51, with a world class rider on both would be a better machine than the RC30/45. But then thats pretty much racing in fantasy land.
The GSXR750 probably could stand a chance, but they simply aren't developed for racing anymore, nowhere to race them, so no advancement beyond the road bikes and trackday folk.
not sure about that. i only have a RC30 and RC51 and i can tell you i bet i can ride the 30 faster but neither are fully maxed out engine wise so possibly you are right and the latest tire back in the day on the 30 was a 160 so not really fair against a 190
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
not sure about that. i only have a RC30 and RC51 and i can tell you i bet i can ride the 30 faster but neither are fully maxed out engine wise so possibly you are right and the latest tire back in the day on the 30 was a 160 so not really fair against a 190
I wouldn't doubt that you can ride the 30 faster. In fact, I would venture to guess most of the people on this board and half the racers out there would ride the 30 faster. I have only thrown a leg over one, and only personally own the little step cousin to it (NC35). What I gather is that they allow riders to ride closer to the edge and develop maximum drive better than just about any bike in history. This is a claim that I'm willing to make without having ridden one in anger. Seems to be supported even with this years Le Mans race. Pretty much the reason why I said "with a world class rider".
I have ridden on the track enough to know that the bike I personally am fastest on is whatever is easiest to exit a corner with. I'm sure I could be faster on the latest GSXCBYZFR10000000, but I wouldn't be due to comfort/skill issues (more on the skill side than anything)
The one comment I hear from everyone who has ridden an RC30 in anger is its the easiest bike to haul ass on and just feels right.
I would gather that fully kitted, and with a top level rider, the 51 would be faster. But again, thats off into fantasy land. Real world, I have no idea, you would be a better judge of that than me at this point. You are right with the tire tech though.
Comparing the RC30 to any other 750 really is no comparison. Even the GSXR750 has not had any epic changes since 2000. I have ridden a bunch of those and all I notice is that the power band keeps getting peakier and the bike itself keeps getting smaller. If anything, I fit better on the older ones and they have more torque which makes it easier to ride, even if they take more muscle to flick into a corner. That class has pretty much stopped with development. So I agree with you that the RC30/45 kitted out would easilly compete, if not destroy any modern 750's.
As motorcycle contests were discontinued after 1994, this remains the fastest officially timed motorcycle lap ever on the 20,832 m variant (159.7 km/h). Done in a single lap time trial run during Zuverlässigkeitsfahrt series on road legal VFR750R RC30 and Metzeler ME Z1 tires
this is great stuff though regardless of the newer bikes
he did that lap on a raod legal with a 160 Met z1 tire
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
As for your other question, can you show me an article where the RC45 outperformed a 916 SPS in a shootout??? If yes, please post the ENTIRE article
Quote 94 Superbike Magazine's Bike of the Year Award between
the Ducati 916 SPS and Honda RC45:
"Straight out of the crate, the RC45 is the best bike of 1994, no
question. Flat, fat spread of torque, instant throttle response and
handling to die for make the RC45 the fastest, bar nothing, over a
given stretch of road. These Showa units must count for their fair
share of that grand price tag. "You can push further, go faster and
still have an enormous safety margin with the RC45. I loved it. Tall
first gear is brilliant. "Coming out of Pembrey's unspeakable hairpin,
I had to clutch in first to get a move on. As for the engine: what a
babe. This isn't boring or flat, it's quick and utterly usable with
grunt that makes a load of 1000s seem sick in comparison.
"The only thing that strikes you after the RC45 is the 916s front end.
It's neither as stable nor as neutral as the Honda. The 916 is very
light on the front, giving it a mild inclination to Fire-Blade-esque
skittishness when gassing hard over the bumpy roads. Handling isn't
quite as neutral on planted as the RC45. It's very very good, but the
front end's a little bouncier through a given series of corners.
Nothing like a super sway 888 or rebound murdered 900SS, and nothing
that would cause a rider to slow up but, ultimately the RC45 is a
faster, safer, purer handling bike"
Who wins Bike of the Year???
916
"The new Superbike of the Year. Unbeatable mix of booming motor,
handling, and the styling beat off Honda's RC45, but not by much. Lack
of brakes is pathetic."
RC45
"A close second to the Ducati, beaten more by charisma than
performance. Flat, torquey motor, excellent handling and demon
chuckablity make it a wicked sportbike"
Mercy... how could Ducati's lip stick and high heels 916 do this to the RC45???
not sure about that. i only have a RC30 and RC51 and i can tell you i bet i can ride the 30 faster but neither are fully maxed out engine wise so possibly you are right and the latest tire back in the day on the 30 was a 160 so not really fair against a 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
sweet, a purpose built brit advertizing bike beat a run of the mill around the track, took a while nonetheless
Not to further get into the evolution of motorcycles and such. But nobody runs motorcycles on the ring much anymore. The MV Agusta put up a pretty fast time a year or two ago as well. Motorcycle mags just don't have the money to shut the ring down for lap records. I would bet there are a ton of modern bikes that would be able to better the times.
In all fairness, with today's tires, I'm sure the RC45 could better that time as well, but we will probably never know unless some super rich guy shuts the track down, brings about 50 bikes and the appropriate crew etc to handle it. Maybe they should do a Masterbike Ring Edition. There might be enough resources to pull it off if they got all the magazines together.
Quote 94 Superbike Magazine's Bike of the Year Award between
the Ducati 916 SPS and Honda RC45:
"Straight out of the crate, the RC45 is the best bike of 1994, no
question. Flat, fat spread of torque, instant throttle response and
handling to die for make the RC45 the fastest, bar nothing, over a
given stretch of road. These Showa units must count for their fair
share of that grand price tag. "You can push further, go faster and
still have an enormous safety margin with the RC45. I loved it. Tall
first gear is brilliant. "Coming out of Pembrey's unspeakable hairpin,
I had to clutch in first to get a move on. As for the engine: what a
babe. This isn't boring or flat, it's quick and utterly usable with
grunt that makes a load of 1000s seem sick in comparison.
"The only thing that strikes you after the RC45 is the 916s front end.
It's neither as stable nor as neutral as the Honda. The 916 is very
light on the front, giving it a mild inclination to Fire-Blade-esque
skittishness when gassing hard over the bumpy roads. Handling isn't
quite as neutral on planted as the RC45. It's very very good, but the
front end's a little bouncier through a given series of corners.
Nothing like a super sway 888 or rebound murdered 900SS, and nothing
that would cause a rider to slow up but, ultimately the RC45 is a
faster, safer, purer handling bike"
Who wins Bike of the Year???
916
"The new Superbike of the Year. Unbeatable mix of booming motor,
handling, and the styling beat off Honda's RC45, but not by much. Lack
of brakes is pathetic."
RC45
"A close second to the Ducati, beaten more by charisma than
performance. Flat, torquey motor, excellent handling and demon
chuckablity make it a wicked sportbike"
Mercy... how could Ducati's lip stick and high heels 916 do this to the RC45???
I'm not going to type up the entire TWO article I referenced earlier. But if you get the chance, check it out. Both bikes had their suspension's tweaked for the test and the handling characteristics were reversed. For some reason Ducati just never seems to get it through their heads to release a bike on standard settings that actually work. Also, the 16" front wheel was pretty universally hated on the RC45.
However, I concede that I really have no say in this discussion at all, seeing as how I don't own either an RC30 or RC45. So I should probably just shut up, I hate when people magazine race as much as anyone.
sweet, a purpose built brit advertizing bike beat a run of the mill around the track, took a while nonetheless
All fine if you take the article that the OP posted, 80k special beats stock proddy bike BTW I know Richard and it's no advertising bike it's the real thing as is he, not some troll that punts second rate wet lay carbon parts.
He took Thorstens ethos and made his own bike.
If you bother reading the article you find where much of the carbon fiber comes from although I doubt it would interest you as it's proper Autoclave stuff rather than poorly laquered cosmetic crap.
) is help by a RC30?
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