R1 Overheating... what could be the reasons? - Page 2 - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesperateSP2 View Post
A leaking head gasket can be ruled out pretty quickly by looking at engine oil and see if it has turned "milky". Sometimes just looking at the oil level window is enough to come up with a diagnosis.
Warped head? The last time I saw such a thing was on a BMW airhead (1984 to 1987 bikes were prone to it) and the engine had a telltale oil seepage which was driving the poor bloke insane.
Let's stick to the basis for now, there will be plenty of time to worry later.
Head gaskets can leak to coolant without getting into the oil plus it may only be leaking under compression. Water in the oil would happen after the gasket is really bad and leaking between the water jacket and the oil cavity. It just depends on where the gasket is bad.

Yes it's probably just air in the system but if he bought it used and if the head had been off before it is possible that it was scratched on the bench or the gasket was damaged at the "fire ring" causing a leak just to coolant.

I've seen damaged fire rings on gaskets. This is caused by bending the gasket before installation and it's easy to scratch the deck face of a head.

Blown head gaskets and warped heads are usually caused by overheating. This can also lead to a crack in the head between the water cavity in the head to the combustion chamber. Same symptoms.
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Now I am officially scared! Out of town this week so can't get back to fixing stuff till the weekend... really hoping it is the air in the coolant system now.... there are no oil leaks anywhere in the bike... and the oil did not look milky. Will look for signs of vapor with the cap open.

How quickly does the coolant go green? Like I said, I changed it just last week... and it was leaking green stuff on the track....

On the pessimistic side... when I bought the bike it had been dropped on its right side... looked like a low side... the fairings were scratched up along with the right ram air intake. It ran straight and true so the I figured the frame was ok... unsure of reality of course... the previous owner had bought it as is too.

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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 03:37 PM
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It's probably fine and just needs to be burped. Didn't mean to cause concern, just noting that head gaskets have more then one failure mode.
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 03:57 PM
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nah man, it's toast, it's gonna blow up like a cheap grenade...

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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 04:36 PM
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Now I am officially scared! Out of town this week so can't get back to fixing stuff till the weekend... really hoping it is the air in the coolant system now.... there are no oil leaks anywhere in the bike... and the oil did not look milky. Will look for signs of vapor with the cap open.

How quickly does the coolant go green? Like I said, I changed it just last week... and it was leaking green stuff on the track....

On the pessimistic side... when I bought the bike it had been dropped on its right side... looked like a low side... the fairings were scratched up along with the right ram air intake. It ran straight and true so the I figured the frame was ok... unsure of reality of course... the previous owner had bought it as is too.
When you bought the bike did you do any street riding at all or did you prep it and go straight to the track?

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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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When you bought the bike did you do any street riding at all or did you prep it and go straight to the track?
I have ridden it around town.. but no high speed excursions

Used to run hot, but after the coolant change etc was running fine around town.. but that was all 40-50 mph riding.

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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 05:56 PM
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you said the bike's been down.i would check the rad for damage,may have a hairline fracture thats only weeping under pressure.you'd be losing water but it would evaporate,the bike then overheats and spews it's guts,you put more water in and so on.worth a look.
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-07-2009, 06:23 PM
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I have ridden it around town.. but no high speed excursions

Used to run hot, but after the coolant change etc was running fine around town.. but that was all 40-50 mph riding.
The bike is fine then. Bikes run cooler at high speed due to all the air getting into the motor. When I'm in stop and go traffic my bike runs at 225F. At a track day my bike runs 175-185F.

Just bleed the radiator and ignore all the confusing posts.

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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so I am back in town... first thing of the plane.. into the garage and I check the level of coolant... it is above FULL in the plastic tank close to the rear brake....

Then I start it up and let it idle.... starts heating up quickly... get up to 230 very quick... and on to 245.. and the overheating light is flashing!! All this through idle... fans come on at around 210 or so but make no difference.

I take a look at the coolant tank... and I see it bubbling over.... there are bubbles coming into the coolant tank!! It is still showing over the FULL mark but bubbles coming up in it... no leaks or overflow though.

Reminder that last time, I didn't even mess with the coolant tank, I bled the coolant and filled to the top.. straight into the radiator.

I am getting ready to get the fairings etc off... and intend to bleed the coolant and fill. Do I try and fill from the radiator or into the coolant tank?

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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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So I started filling distilled water into from the radiator cap... adding a little.... moving the bike side to side... starting it for a couple of seconds with the radiator cap open... and when I stop.. I definetly hear a *burp*.

The level in the coolant tank does not seem to be changing as I am adding to the radiator... is that normal? How can it be taking so much water and still stay over FULL???

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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:02 PM
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I am getting ready to get the fairings etc off... and intend to bleed the coolant and fill. Do I try and fill from the radiator or into the coolant tank?
This one I can't really answer. You may have to visit the R1 Forum unless someone here knows R1s well.

When I had my Gixxer and Ducati 999, you filled up in the radiator. On my MV you fill up in the coolant tank. What year is your bike?

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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This one I can't really answer. You may have to visit the R1 Forum unless someone here knows R1s well.

When I had my Gixxer and Ducati 999, you filled up in the radiator. On my MV you fill up in the coolant tank. What year is your bike?
A 2005. The service manual says add to the coolant tank... and if overheating... take it to the Yamaha dealer!

I am going to fill the Radiator Up... and see what happens.

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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:12 PM
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So I started filling distilled water into from the radiator cap... adding a little.... moving the bike side to side... starting it for a couple of seconds with the radiator cap open... and when I stop.. I definetly hear a *burp*.

The level in the coolant tank does not seem to be changing as I am adding to the radiator... is that normal? How can it be taking so much water and still stay over FULL???
Keep burping it. Let it cool down and repeat the process.

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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:29 PM
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How many times till you crack it ?

How come you have to let it get to 245 every time before you think it is getting hot. If it doesn't have a bad head gasket yet it certainly will soon maybe you have a cracked head.
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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How come you have to let it get to 245 every time before you think it is getting hot. If it doesn't have a bad head gasket yet it certainly will soon maybe you have a cracked head.
Only ONCE today!

So it took a little more than a 1/3rd gallon of distilled water to fill it up to the radiator cap, so that explains why it was overheating earlier today on idle... didn't have enought coolant.

Started it up and ran about 156 on idle... shut it down, and I see some fumes coming from around the radiator cap... not sure if it was just evaporating the spilled distilled water or if it is leaking something (the leak might explain the overheating) but I am really hoping it isn't that!!

Going to take it for a ride to make sure I get it dry and then come back and check again for vapors.

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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-10-2009, 11:41 PM
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I have no idea how it works on an R1. On my Triumph, there was a bleed valve just above the water pump. You filled it up from the radiator till it was up to the top. Then you crack the bleed valve - at first, nothing but air comes out, then coolant. Once coolant comes out, you close the bleed valve. Then you add more coolant to top off the radiator, then you fill the coolant reservoir. The bleed valve was there because air defiinitely gets trapped in the cooling passages, and can't be sloshed back to the radiator.

Definitely get the service manual. Doing this wrong is going to roach your motor.
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, so I took it for a ride... rode fine.... 170-180 F... would hit 215 or so at idle and fans came on and cooled it back down....and there were no fumes... so no leak in the radiator... that is the GOOD NEWS.

The BAD NEWS is, I stopped and let it idle till it got hotter, and it pissed out about a cup of coolant!! I know it is suppossed to do that when it is over filled.... but that is exactly what it had started doing on the track.. once I would stop and let it idle, it would piss coolant out....eventually getting rid of 1/3 gallon of coolant in the process.

What might cause it piss off coolant over and over till it freakin gets empty!!

The coolant tank still shows above FULL... so I am wondering if there is some blockage somewhere in the system...how does the radiator get empty and the coolant tank show full??? Also seeing the bubbles in the coolant tank.

Anyone else have a 2004/2005 R1 here? Could you check if you you see bubbles in the coolant tank after your bike gets hot?

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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 01:27 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, so I got the service manual... not quite as simple... two drain plugs... and have to drain and fill the radiator and coolant tank independently... will try new process tomorrow... thanks for the input guys.

Will keep you posted!

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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 01:35 AM
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Ok, so I got the service manual... not quite as simple... two drain plugs... and have to drain and fill the radiator and coolant tank independently... will try new process tomorrow... thanks for the input guys.

Will keep you posted!
My experience normally requires about 5 hot and cold cycles. Don't let it get too hot that it will boil over.

Squeeze the hoses as was suggested earlier while it's running with the radiator cap off (while swaying it from side to side).

It's hard to do especially if the air pocket is down by the water pump. Be patient, you'll get it.

If it makes you feel better, my MV turned into a steam cloud once on the brooklyn bridge when I had the same problem. lol I was embarrassed. People kept walking by like 'what the heck happened to this loser?' hahahaha

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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 01:36 AM
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Ok, so I took it for a ride... rode fine.... 170-180 F... would hit 215 or so at idle and fans came on and cooled it back down....and there were no fumes... so no leak in the radiator... that is the GOOD NEWS.

The BAD NEWS is, I stopped and let it idle till it got hotter, and it pissed out about a cup of coolant!! I know it is suppossed to do that when it is over filled.... but that is exactly what it had started doing on the track.. once I would stop and let it idle, it would piss coolant out....eventually getting rid of 1/3 gallon of coolant in the process.

What might cause it piss off coolant over and over till it freakin gets empty!!

The coolant tank still shows above FULL... so I am wondering if there is some blockage somewhere in the system...how does the radiator get empty and the coolant tank show full??? Also seeing the bubbles in the coolant tank.

Anyone else have a 2004/2005 R1 here? Could you check if you you see bubbles in the coolant tank after your bike gets hot?
The tank is a reservoir - it's where coolant goes when the rad overflows. The rad overflows if the coolant boils, or if exhaust gas is pressurizing the coolant system (head gasket bad) or if the radiator cap is faulty.
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