Stock Suspension revisited.......

[Turbo329]

How good is the stock componentry on todays bikes?

I dug up an old roadracing world magazine where they did a liter bike comparo at Spring Mountain Motorsports Park at Pahrump Nevada.

What's a good laptime at this track?

Anybody A group riders on this forum have laptimes from Pahrump?

Here are the fastest laptimes by bike:

1:40.55 MV Agusta F4-1000R (Chris Ulrich)

1:40.84 YZF-R1 (Jeremy Toye)

1:41.44 GSX-R1000 (Chris Ulrich)

1:41.75 ZX-10R (Chris Ulrich)

1:43.03 1098S (Chris Ulrich)


Ulrich was 180lbs at 6'0"

Bikes were BONE STOCK

Your thoughts???

[Busy Little Shop]

My stock Showa forks are up to snuff but my rear shock wasn't...

I've taken my stock Showa apart and decided it was not worth to
rebuild... technically speaking the piston seal in the shock shock
employs the cheapest material possible... that material is like a gob
of RTV sealant and does not expand sufficiently enough over time and
during hard use... so as the shock body ages and then heats up the
clearances between the piston seal and body grows enough to allow
fluid blow by... the result is the back end of your once planted RC45
begins to moves around a bit...

After market shocks like Ohlins and Penske employ the best material
possible namely a Teflon expanding seal around the piston that has the
ability to grow consistently over time and during hard use...

[Turbo329]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

My stock Showa forks are up to snuff but my rear shock wasn't...

that material is like a gob
of RTV sealant and does not expand sufficiently enough over time and
during hard use... so as the shock body ages and then heats up the
clearances between the piston seal and body grows enough to allow
fluid blow by... the result is the back end of your once planted RC45
begins to moves around a bit...

Right, but my question is when the shock is working optimally, how does it rate? ...before it starts to degrade.

[Chuckracer]

Originally Posted by Turbo329

How good is the stock componentry on todays bikes?

Very, very good. 15 years ago? Not so much.

[GAMBLER]

it's all about spring rate

[banda]

Evil rant-y sh_t disturber mode on:

99% of riders (even track day riders) couldn't adjust their own suspension settings to achieve a desired effect if you held a gun to their heads.

Hell, no one here on this board has ever put together a meaningful description (that I have read) of why they adjusted or replaced a suspension component on their motorcycle.

Instead, the only discussion of suspension work, adjustment, or replacement centers on voodoo-like descriptions of the work of paid wizards.

How many riders do you think have spent even one day working through their suspension settings in a methodical way, taking notes, and making adjustments though a planned set of steps?

I guarantee it's a shorter list than the list of riders who have made absolute proclamations about whether stock suspensions are any good or who have recommended the work of a suspension "tuning" vendor.

Having said that - I will cast my opinion. Stock suspensions are better, on average, than the riders who comment on them.

(PS: I don't care if you personally know everything about suspension setup - if you do, then I wasn't talking about you. I am busy attacking the "unnamed other" and I don't feel your input is helpful)

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Turbo329

Right, but my question is when the shock is working optimally, how does it rate? ...before it starts to degrade.

Mr.RC45's stock Showa forks and shock rates about 90% of the Ohlins forks and shock...

[socal]

Originally Posted by banda

Hell, no one here on this board has ever put together a meaningful description (that I have read) of why they adjusted or replaced a suspension component on their motorcycle.

Instead, the only discussion of suspension work, adjustment, or replacement centers on voodoo-like descriptions of the work of paid wizards.

Many would benefit from having the suspension resprung. Thats because rider weight varies so greatly.

[sqd8r]

Originally Posted by banda

Evil rant-y sh_t disturber mode on:

99% of riders (even track day riders) couldn't adjust their own suspension settings to achieve a desired effect if you held a gun to their heads.

Hell, no one here on this board has ever put together a meaningful description (that I have read) of why they adjusted or replaced a suspension component on their motorcycle.

Instead, the only discussion of suspension work, adjustment, or replacement centers on voodoo-like descriptions of the work of paid wizards.

How many riders do you think have spent even one day working through their suspension settings in a methodical way, taking notes, and making adjustments though a planned set of steps?

I guarantee it's a shorter list than the list of riders who have made absolute proclamations about whether stock suspensions are any good or who have recommended the work of a suspension "tuning" vendor.

Having said that - I will cast my opinion. Stock suspensions are better, on average, than the riders who comment on them.

(PS: I don't care if you personally know everything about suspension setup - if you do, then I wasn't talking about you. I am busy attacking the "unnamed other" and I don't feel your input is helpful)

I agree,

Even most reviews today; they leave the suspension on stock settings, and find them excellent. Motorcycles overall are better today than the riders. Keith Code remarked years ago that while machines improve in leaps and bounds rider improvement is incremental at best or not all. He made those remarks over 10 - 20 years ago in Twist of the Wrist.

I've only replaced my suspension when it has completely gone off:

• RC51 after a few track seasons
• VTR1000 Firestorm bottomed out from day one so stiffer springs were done.
• I'm a big guy and the HP2 forks were sprung for someone a lot lighter; on road they were good but off-road at high speeds, 80-100 kph they were lacking. I revalved the front end only.
• I found my CBR600RR, ZX10R suspension excellent on track, rough on the road, and needing no adjustment worth it. I just did the ride height stuff and set sag with a local suspension pro.

Aftermarket suspension is excellent but stock, esp. if you are road riding only, is very good.

Even off-road bikes today are near pukka suspension and more than the average riders need. The air shock on the HP2, one of the few bikes with them - Gold Wings' still have them IIRC, is worlds ahead of the old air suspension even from 10 years ago; I cannot imagine that the modern front fork and rear shock suspension that is de rigeur and under constant improvement and development is lacking.

[Turbo329]

Good points.

Ulrich said he bottomed out the forks on all of the bikes tested in the article I referenced but that still didn't stop him from running fast laps on all of the bikes.

I think back in the day, suspension was bad to the point where you couldn't ride around it, but today even crappy suspension does not make it impossible to lap quickly. That's what I'm getting at.