Is TC ruining racing?

**mrgrn** · #1 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 01:27 PM

Watching the first WSBK race

and the guys calling the game were mentioning the sound of the motor getting slowed by the TC to make the tire not slip

i realize the importance of safety but come on

i used to love to watch corner exit throttle control and it is one of the main reasons i watch racing. I however am not into pinning the throttle at entry and listening to the motor bog as others pass because the bike is controlled by sensors.

tire choice and control made racing for me not just absolute power. nerves and guts and pain were what is was about not this TC crap, it is making racing dull and plain.

gixracer · #2 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 01:35 PM

troll

**mrgrn** · #3 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gixracer

troll

what again? i know it has come up B4 but the more i watch it the more it sickens me. and some thoughts on it might be interesting

here is my

for you. if you don't like the thread don't post

duckdawg · #4 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 02:04 PM

yes...

XFBO · #5 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 02:55 PM

Hey atleast its not another advertisement so give him some credit for trying to start a thought provoking thread.

To answer the question, I dont think it takes anything away from racing than any other technological advancement. Is it a chance for one company to be more superior than the other in terms of quality TC? YES....but hows that different than any other aspect of racing ie....motor design, braking components, suspension components, etc......

It would seem to me that any argument made against TC and/or any other piece of equipment are arguing for SPEC rules across the board. Now THAT would be boring to me, but hey it MIGHT also be better racing since it takes away the theory of one having an advantage over the other...

bsess · #6 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 03:27 PM

I don't mind TC in production class racing because there should be some viable venues for the manufacturers to develop meaningful technology but in the premier class (MotoGP) it should be done away with entirely.

They were looking to slow the bikes down and the 800cc rule had the opposite of the intended effect. The best way to slow the bikes down (and also bring back more of an emphasis on rider skill) is to increase the engine capacity and horsepower of the bikes and eliminate traction control. Trap speed will be higher but corner speeds (especially with a one tire rule) will go down considerably.

**mrgrn** · #7 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFBO

Hey atleast its not another advertisement so give him some credit for trying to start a thought provoking thread.

To answer the question, I dont think it takes anything away from racing than any other technological advancement. Is it a chance for one company to be more superior than the other in terms of quality TC? YES....but hows that different than any other aspect of racing ie....motor design, braking components, suspension components, etc......

It would seem to me that any argument made against TC and/or any other piece of equipment are arguing for SPEC rules across the board. Now THAT would be boring to me, but hey it MIGHT also be better racing since it takes away the theory of one having an advantage over the other...

Frank, sorry i advertise here

maybe if we rid the forum of people who make things, sell them, and help people with them the forum will be---- hey a lounge

don't like the spec tires either really and one of the main reasons i stopped watching WSBK and the fact the factory teams pulled out

**mrgrn** · #8 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsess

I don't mind TC in production class racing because there should be some viable venues for the manufacturers to develop meaningful technology but in the premier class (MotoGP) it should be done away with entirely.

They were looking to slow the bikes down and the 800cc rule had the opposite of the intended effect. The best way to slow the bikes down (and also bring back more of an emphasis on rider skill) is to increase the engine capacity and horsepower of the bikes and eliminate traction control. Trap speed will be higher but corner speeds (especially with a one tire rule) will go down considerably.

what meaningful technology? it is nice they can equip the 1198r with it for 40k or maybe if we get lucky they will make it more reasonable enough to dumb down japanese liters too but that eliminates the human factor and that is why i like to ride, how about you?

I have been on bikes a while and even though i do not ride track(yet, next year) i have never felt the want or need for TC

XFBO · #9 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsess

Trap speed will be higher but corner speeds (especially with a one tire rule) will go down considerably.

Dont take this as me being a smart ass but wasnt that the whole point of dropping down to 800cc's? Trap speeds?
I understand that they're running faster but it is by way of faster corner speeds, Im not sure if that was as much of a risk/danger as the all out brute (trap speeds) of the former 990cc bikes.....atleast I dont think they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgrn

i have never felt the want or need for TC

Ever felt or the need for a steering damper? A brembo m/c? Brembo calipers? Maybe extreme but where do you draw the line?

For every 5 ppl who hate TC their might be 10 who like it, I dont know. If TC truly makes riding easier then Im still waiting on a reply on how and why others seem to be struggling for a podium....I mean if it makes everyone fast what's the problem, shouldnt we be seeing 5+ guys fighting for that last step?

Until I see THAT, Im not gonna rant and rave about TC or any other equipment geared towards improving technology but hey Im a science and tech kinda guy and like advancements......to a degree.

Oh one last question, if TC has ruined the sport as some of you propose why are we still seeing crazy high sides from time to time?

GAMBLER · #10 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 06:03 PM

alot of the top riders & even some of the race orgs want it out, but Pandora's box was opened along time ago... if Mladin has been using it in the AMA for years by skirting the spirit of the rule, there is no way... it is simply unenforceable to ban TC even spec ecu's would NOT work.
Mark, your rigt about missing the slides, better racing 2

but I don't want to see it banned in GP's or even spec tyres for that matter.

drthompson65 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 06:29 PM

I for one like TC since it makes it safer for riders and eventually it will trickle down to production bikes (already has started to happen).

Busy Little Shop · #12 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 07:28 PM

No... TC assist the racer it don't make the racer...

wolf44 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 07:37 PM

you're only getting assistance in one part of the whole racing equation.
I see nothing wrong with it.
ON THE THROTTLE

drsus · #14 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 08:02 PM

i dont like what TC does.... takes the need for big balls of big bike riders away. The allure of MotoGP is watching the worlds best handle the worlds most powewrful bikes....except now the bikes are calmed down so anyone that can ride a bike fast can jump on a GP bike and survive....

no different than running a 250cc in that respect, neither will bite. so whats the point?

I see why TC is needed for some numbnuts that went and bought himself the most powerful 1000cc bike as his first bike ever, then goes down to the track and decides hes gonna show everyone just how fast and badass the thing comes out of the turns.... i see the point there, but then what fun is it not watching him learn such a valuable lesson?

bsess · #15 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFBO

Dont take this as me being a smart ass but wasnt that the whole point of dropping down to 800cc's? Trap speeds?
I understand that they're running faster but it is by way of faster corner speeds, Im not sure if that was as much of a risk/danger as the all out brute (trap speeds) of the former 990cc bikes.....atleast I dont think they are.

You're correct in saying that the whole point in MotoGP's reduction in engine capacity was to slow down the bikes for safety reasons. However, the unintended consequences of the change was that the corner speeds (entry, mid and exit) became significantly higher. So much so that trap speeds were not so adversely affected. In response to the question in your mind as to which is more dangerous, higher trap speeds or higher corner speeds, let me suggest an answer in the form of a question: where are race track accidents/crashes more likely to occur, in corners or straights?

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFBO

Oh one last question, if TC has ruined the sport as some of you propose why are we still seeing crazy high sides from time to time?

Its a very good question. I think if you take a look at Jorge Lorenzo's spectacular highsides at Shanghai and Laguna, you will see that they were the result of very high corner entry speeds and the sudden loss of rear traction probably caused by too much rear brake action (as opposed to throttle induced traction loss mid-corner or near exit). These high sides were not caused by throttle action on the rider's part and cannot be prevented by TC.

bsess · #16 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgrn

what meaningful technology? it is nice they can equip the 1198r with it for 40k or maybe if we get lucky they will make it more reasonable enough to dumb down japanese liters too but that eliminates the human factor and that is why i like to ride, how about you?

I have been on bikes a while and even though i do not ride track(yet, next year) i have never felt the want or need for TC

I can understand your purist's preference and desire to put more emphasis on the human factor in maintaining traction but as you yourself admit, you are not really a track rider and, as such, are not familiar or experienced with exploring traction limits where electronic TC could assist you considerably. I like the idea of bikes having it provided it is fully defeatable. It could also help save a lot of marginally skilled street riders in both wet and dry conditions.

TrickLidz · #17 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 10:20 PM

F- TC.
I think it CAUSED the highside to Neil Hodgson at VIR this year....

**mrgrn** · #18 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsess

I can understand your purist's preference and desire to put more emphasis on the human factor in maintaining traction but as you yourself admit, you are not really a track rider and, as such, are not familiar or experienced with exploring traction limits where electronic TC could assist you considerably. I like the idea of bikes having it provided it is fully defeatable. It could also help save a lot of marginally skilled street riders in both wet and dry conditions.

I also agree on having it become defeatable, a must.

as far me not tracking a bike goes that is a lame stance at best. what si the precentage of streetbikes sold make it to the track where they would be possibly needing TC? what 1%

Mashuri · #19 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 10:51 PM

I like TC on street bikes but please ditch it in racing. I'm one of those guys who misses the 2 stroke era.

johnyisthedevil · #20 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 12:18 AM

the only way I would like tc on a race bike would be if it was totaly controllable by the rider. something simple like a button that cut spark to one cylinder only when the racer pushes it. that would be a "rider aid". tc as it stands ;to me any way, is a skill reducer. not that it reduc