New R1 uses M1 firing intervals.

[sqd8r]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

Clever move, by Yamaha. Retain all the handling advantages of the short I-4 motor, and get the rear wheel traction of the close firing-order (big bang) motors. Won't make a difference to the actual power/torque production /powerband in itself, of course, UNLESS they changed the motor's tuning.

EDIT: Just listened to the sound bites. I don't like it. Much prefer the screamer I4 sound. But then, I've never enjoyed the sound of ANY of the big-bang motors. Maybe it will sound more forceful with some open exhausts, but it'll never have the F1 car high-RPM scream, of course.

Agreed on point one. Not really concerned with point two; nothing a good aftermarket exhaust can't fix.

[Old Baldy]

Sburns2421 - thanks for the much simpler illustration of the forces the Soup article was talking about. My confusion on this was that I was taking the Soup article wording too literally (as effectively pointed out by DuckDawg. Thanks guys). I agree with your interpretation of the real process, as you laid out so nicely. Makes absolute sense.

The real interesting part for me is that I would NEVER have guessed that this rotational torque effect would have been even perceptible by the rider, much less an issue to this extent. I guess when one lives in the world of 18000 - 19000 RPM 240 HP 800cc, it really is an entirely different ballgame, and issues that are not even identified at the normal street and track level become potentially quite significant for the rider.

sburns2421, you wanna lay out your nice + and - diagram for various V4 motors - including a 180 and 360 and perhaps a close-coupled (Ducati MGP style) V4 motor, for fun? We know that the V4 "twin-pulse" Ducati motor also has shifted close-coupled crank phasing (and thus is just as "unstandard" a configuration as any I4 rephased crank, despite what some V4 proponent says here )

I wonder if the extra "noise" of the uneven inertia phasing of the Honda V4 vs the I4 Yamaha could be felt by someone like Rossi? The V4 would clearly be better than a regular 180 I4 crank in this respect, but worse than the rephased M1 I4 crank.

Real interesting stuff!

[sqd8r]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

Old, past tense stuff, Larry.

You believe that Rossi signed to continue with the I4 Yamaha for the next coupla years against his own desire, and when the I4 Yamaha is dominating the constructors championship?

Rossi has shown that he can get whatever he wishes, in MGP, even splitting his team's tire choice down the middle and forcing a wall to be built between his own constructor's team in the pits.

I'll have some of what you must be smoking, Larry. It must be powerful stuff!

Indeed. I don't know what is more significant;the world's number one rider signing and winning on the I4 despite a tasty title-winning V4 in the wings or the world's largest and most technologically advanced motorcycle manufacturer leaving the platform on and now off the track.

[Superhawk69]

Originally Posted by OMEGA

Looks even wider for 09, almost busalike in width

It appears that the fairing is one piece over the other by the look and the colors. They said in the description it's to aid in cooling. another by product of development; fairings that actually do more than cover up hoses and motor, etc.

[Ducs1k]

Not really diggin the the cross-eyed headlight look, doesn't work on the Kwak and certainly doesn't work here. Seems like the Japanese manufactures put all their styling efforts into the 600's, and phone it in with the liter bikes.

I'll be interested to see how well it works on the road, if the new motor really has a useable low and mid range, and if it has thoughtful, 'why buy a sports tourer' ergonomics. Just from the PR hype it sounds like it could claim the title of 'ultimate real world superbike', hopefully it can deliver.

With the RC8 coming in at 20 large before mark up , the R1 might be the bike to look at next spring for the 09 riding season.

*Also will be very interested to see if it can take the fight to Ducati in WSBK next year

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by sqd8r

Indeed. I don't know what is more significant;the world's number one rider signing and winning on the I4 despite a tasty title-winning V4 in the wings or the world's largest and most technologically advanced motorcycle manufacturer leaving the platform on and now off the track.

The worlds number one rider is what it takes win a championship on an
Inline... other champions win on the V motors...

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by sqd8r

Agreed on point one. Not really concerned with point two; nothing a good aftermarket exhaust can't fix.

For sure... now it's possible for Yamaha's "virtual V4" to sound as good as an actual big bang V4...

Mr.RC45 on video...
DSCN6568.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[Old Baldy]

I wonder how they're handling the bad rocking couple vibration this cross-plane layout introduces? Multiple balancer shafts? Special motor mounts?

While it's great marketing on Yamaha's side, you have to wonder if this change introduces as many problems as it solves. We don't ALL ride (or WANT to ride) above 12000 RPM most of the time, which is apparently the ballpark threshold for this config to make a difference...and this advantage must be held against the increased balance vibration it introduces, for a street bike.

Time will tell. I have no doubt the press will LOVE it in the USA, as they tend to do with every new bike. It certainly is going to be interesting to see how it pans out in comparisons against the current street benchmarks.

[imported_ICEMAN]

I am kinda lukewarm about this bike.... they screwed up the looks a bit, but not as bad as Kawi..... maybe it will evolve into something better....
so now we wait for the 09 gixxer!

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

I wonder how they're handling the bad rocking couple vibration this cross-plane layout introduces? Multiple balancer shafts? Special motor mounts?

Dig into it Baldy because the more you wonder about the new I4 the more
sense the tried and true 90º V4 makes... for it don't need balancers or special
motor mounts to handle vibrations...

[Mashuri]

Larry,

If you tried to mount this transmission on a V4 it would end up between the cylinder banks. This is a significant advantage for the I4 and a big reason why the M1 has been the best handling bike out there. Don't go conjuring up old bike dimensions. Compare only the latest designs in wheelbase / swingarm length, weight distribution and mass centralization and you'll understand.

[sburns2421]

I happen to think the engineering in this powerplant is awesome, and it is the only Japanese bike I would consider at this point. The intakes are so steep, giving a straight shot down to the valves, and the transmission is about where the carbs used to be on older superbikes. Mass centralization and a long swingarm in one elegant solution.

While the new crank may only have a marginal improvment in performance in the real world, I appreciate that we can go down to a dealer and for a couple of hundred per month own a bike whose engine shares DNA with the championship winner this year.

I happen to think the R1 in person will look fantastic. There is something about viewing in 3D that pictures or video fail to capture. The 999 is the same way, there are so many features, or the interaction of those features, that is missed in pictures. I think the R1 will be the same way.

[RCJAY]

Is this engine setup that much different then the old I4s ? Is the feel of the ride that different?

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Mashuri

Larry,

If you tried to mount this transmission on a V4 it would end up between the cylinder banks. This is a significant advantage for the I4 and a big reason why the M1 has been the best handling bike out there.

Granted the I4 is short... but the main reason the M1 flicks as quick
as it does is Yamaha's trick to spin the long and heavy crankshaft
backwards which greatly reduces the overall gyroscopic forces of the
wheels given their size and weights...

All of the MotoGp bikes are extreme examples of packaging
efficiency... The on going problem is not getting the engine where you
want in the frame but finding space for all the new systems... like
traction control computers etc etc etc...

Kawasaki and Yamaha both employ the same short I4... but it's Yamaha's
backward spinning crank makes their I4 a lot more agile than Kawasaki's
forwards spinning crank in the ZX-RR... gyroscopic precession is real and it
is the force you feel during rapid transitions in race mode...

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by sburns2421

While the new crank may only have a marginal improvment in performance in the real world,

I'll bet Yamaha's new crank phasing will be looked upon as an substantial
improvement in the real world... and I predict that someday all the
I4s will be copies Yamaha's irregular firing crank... marks my words
the old 180º crank days are numbered...

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by sburns2421

I happen to think the engineering in this powerplant is awesome, and it is the only Japanese bike I would consider at this point. The intakes are so steep, giving a straight shot down to the valves, and the transmission is about where the carbs used to be on older superbikes. Mass centralization and a long swingarm in one elegant solution.

While the new crank may only have a marginal improvment in performance in the real world, I appreciate that we can go down to a dealer and for a couple of hundred per month own a bike whose engine shares DNA with the championship winner this year.

I happen to think the R1 in person will look fantastic. There is something about viewing in 3D that pictures or video fail to capture. The 999 is the same way, there are so many features, or the interaction of those features, that is missed in pictures. I think the R1 will be the same way.

i would have to agree with the going to the dealership for $200 a month and getting real race DNA

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by RCJAY

Is this engine setup that much different then the old I4s ? Is the feel of the ride that different?

Look for words in the up coming Yamaha R1 test like "more linear power
delivery than the old 180º I4" or "more user friendly on the track than the old
180º I4" or "feels like more power down low than the oldº 14" or "builds power
more like a big bang V4 than an I4"

[thatkindasux]

the R1s in person still look like a praying mantis.

the Fiat paintjob is kinda nifty tho.

[Realmanken]

It would look perfect if they would get rid of the old underseat exhaust design and give it the GP style exhaust like on the R6. I like the red and white one the best. The new staggered firing order of the cylinders will no doubtedly put the R1 on top of the 1000 CC class untill HONDA makes their new V-4 RC-51 replacement.