China Spoiler

[247]

Looked pretty close to me in most of the sessions, and Nicky was actually faster a couple times.

Originally Posted by Mashuri

Look at Pedrosa's top speeds at China and he's up there with the Ducatis and Yamahas. Nicky, on the other hand, is down by a significant amount. It pays to be tiny.

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by bsess

While the Ducati V4s still rule the horsepower roost, the Yamahas are right behind them.

Yamaha's I4s will always labor in the shadow of Ducati's V4... Technically
speaking I believe Yamaha's I4 gives up 3 important compromises to
Ducati's V4...

1 Yamaha's Furusawa re invented the I4... he introduced and irregular
firing order to mimic what V engines do naturally... provide excellent
grip...

2 Yamaha spun the crankshaft backwards to offset the long I4
crankshafts gyroscopic procession and it's resistance to turning...
something the short forward spinning V4 crank does naturally...

3 In an effort to make the I4 as narrow as possible Yamaha moved the cam
gears back to the center of the block and went up and over the top to
drive the cams... but that trick cost Yamaha 5HP because they must feed
all the ponies through an power hungry jackshaft in order to have the rear
wheel spin forward... V4 don't need a power robbing jackshaft...

[247]

Fascinating.

First off: 500cc GP bikes had irregular firing orders (which were V4s) way before the M1 adopted it.
Second: Yamaha used backwards rotating crank on those aforesaid 500cc V4s too.
Third: despite all the incredible advantages of the magical V4 engine, Yamaha's inline 4s are more than competitive in points, race wins, lap times and horsepower.

Drives ya crazy don't it?

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

Yamaha's I4s will always labor in the shadow of Ducati's V4... Technically
speaking I believe Yamaha's I4 gives up 3 important compromises to
Ducati's V4...

1 Yamaha's Furusawa re invented the I4... he introduced and irregular
firing order to mimic what V engines do naturally... provide excellent
grip...

2 Yamaha spun the crankshaft backwards to offset the long I4
crankshafts gyroscopic procession and it's resistance to turning...
something the short forward spinning V4 crank does naturally...

3 In an effort to make the I4 as narrow as possible Yamaha moved the cam gears back to the center of the block and went up and over the top to drive the cams... but that trick cost Yamaha 5HP because they must feed all the ponies through a power hungry jackshaft in order to have the rear wheel spin forward... V4 don't need a power robbing jackshaft...

[Dragger]

One thing's for sure Yamaha has the I4 sorted. I don't care what the numbers at the end of the straight say, Yamaha won on a high speed track, he passed Pedrosa's Honda on a long straight from 2 bikes back and put a 1 bike lead on him before the next corner, and for the 2nd race in a row pedrosa couldn't do anything about it, Rossi was pulling away on the straights even as the little pedrosa was drafting him. He's definately got the acceleration; are they gearing short for more acceleration at the cost of those very few mph on top? Because they were visually jumping off the corners.

Combine that with Colin's pole, rookie Lorenzo's poles/win, and obviously Yamaha has the bike sorted from motor to handling while honda has failed to produce a world dominating bike since Burgess and his crew left. They can't even produce a pneumatic-valve engine for their top bikes while Yamaha has'em for their B-level bikes.

[cheekybloke]

Originally Posted by Dragger

They can't even produce a pneumatic-valve engine for their top bikes while Yamaha has'em for their B-level bikes.

Apparently the trouble Honda are having with their pneumatic valve engine focuses on power delivery rather than outright power, it's reputed to be a bit of a handful with a narrow powerband. Perhaps if they advanced their development and built a stinky LI4 they might make some progress.
Where did I hear this snippet? the Eurosport commentators Julian Ryder Toby Moody and Randy Mamola were discussing it.

[XFBO]

Originally Posted by Dragger

and obviously Yamaha has the bike sorted from motor to handling

+1
and dont forget their killer brakes!!!

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by 247

Fascinating.



Drives ya crazy don't it?

I'm fine but Yamaha's stubbornness with sticking closely to the I4 product
line probably drives Rossi crazy... no other manufacture has let him down
more...

Quote Rossi:

"It is Yamaha's prerogative to have an engine isn't the
fastest, it was also the same 20 years ago." he laughed. "It is a
technical choice, to go more slow! But apart the joke, for sure we
suffer from the configuration of our engine."

"Maybe the V4 is better configuration for the 800s." said Rossi. "If
the 800s remain for some years I think MotoGp will become like 500s,
with everyone making the same configuration. Now it's like the V4 is
the best way. it seems the engine is easier to improve, but Yamaha
don't have a lot of experience with V4s. Maybe they need two years
from zero to racing the bike. which is a long time. I'm speaking also
for the future, when I have stooped racing, so I think they have to
start trying the engine because in four of five years I think everyone
will have V4s."

[nomo]

Originally Posted by XFBO

+1
and dont forget their killer brakes!!!

...and don't forget their killer brakers , Vale and Horhay !

[dj_wawa]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

I'm fine but Yamaha's stubbornness with sticking closely to the I4 product
line probably drives Rossi crazy... no other manufacture has let him down
more...

Quote Rossi:

"It is Yamaha's prerogative to have an engine isn't the
fastest, it was also the same 20 years ago." he laughed. "It is a
technical choice, to go more slow! But apart the joke, for sure we
suffer from the configuration of our engine."

"Maybe the V4 is better configuration for the 800s." said Rossi. "If
the 800s remain for some years I think MotoGp will become like 500s,
with everyone making the same configuration. Now it's like the V4 is
the best way. it seems the engine is easier to improve, but Yamaha
don't have a lot of experience with V4s. Maybe they need two years
from zero to racing the bike. which is a long time. I'm speaking also
for the future, when I have stooped racing, so I think they have to
start trying the engine because in four of five years I think everyone
will have V4s."

sweet, where's this quote from? and what's burgess' take on the situation?

[TheDrizel]

Originally Posted by dj_wawa

sweet, where's this quote from? and what's burgess' take on the situation?

I believe that quote was from Rossi last year in the midst of getting destroyed by the ducati. I wonder how he feels today when he was running away from the v4 with the little turd on it.

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by XFBO

+1
and dont forget their killer brakes!!!

as well as some good riders

[Old Baldy]

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

Yamaha's I4s will always labor in the shadow of Ducati's V4...

Really? While I love my Ducatis, I recognize they're struggling and the Yamaha is clearly and indisputably NOT laboring in teh sshadow of the Ducati's V4 right now!

Constructor Points

QAT SPA PORCHN FRA ITA CAT GBR NED GER USA CZE RSM INP JPN AUS MAL VAL
1 YAMAHA 90 20 20 25 25
2 HONDA 81 16 25 20 20
3 DUCATI 56 25 5 10 16
4 SUZUKI 34 8 11 8 7
5 KAWASAKI 26 4 9 11 2

Team Points

1 FIAT YAMAHA TEAM 146 31 36 41 38
2 REPSOL HONDA TEAM 110 22 38 20 30
3 DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM 79 30 9 13 27
4 TECH 3 YAMAHA 64 19 10 22 13
5 RIZLA SUZUKI MOTOGP 47 8 17 15 7
6 KAWASAKI RACING TEAM 29 4 12 11 2
7 SAN CARLO HONDA GRESI 29 3 9 11 6
8 JIR TEAM SCOT MOTOGP 26 13 8 - 5
9 ALICE TEAM 19 3 1 6 9
10 LCR HONDA MOTOGP 11 7 - 1 3


If you actually WATCHED the race this weekend, you would have seen the Yamaha VISIBLY jumping off the turns and accelerating quicker than the Honda, and clearly more stable under braking and turning quicker.

Such a slug of a machine.

PS You could continue to rehash Rossi's old quotes from last year, when the Yamaha+Michelin clearly was NOT comparable to the Ducati+Bridgestone package, but that's a lifetime ago, and Yamaha have stepped up to become arguably the BEST bike in the world right now. The RESULTS do not indicate anything else.

Larry, so who's guilty of sitting behind their keyboard now .... and not recognizing the real world results out there?

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by dj_wawa

sweet, where's this quote from? and what's burgess' take on the situation?

The quote is from Roadracing World... and I don't have Burgess's take on
the situation but I will ask him about it this year at Laguna Seca MotoGp...
he loves the RC45...

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

Really?

Really!!! just keeping watching the finish line... a V4 will take the championship
and Rossi will never race another I4 after his contract is up with Yamaha ha
ha...

[Mashuri]

Cute. You DO realize that Rossi is on the verge of signing another year with Yamaha, right??

Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop

Really!!! just keeping watching the finish line... a V4 will take the championship
and Rossi will never race another I4 after his contract is up with Yamaha ha
ha...

[247]

He's got to be pretty happy right now. It's a great bike.

[Dragger]

Originally Posted by Old Baldy

If you actually WATCHED the race this weekend, you would have seen the Yamaha VISIBLY jumping off the turns and accelerating quicker than the Honda, and clearly more stable under braking and turning quicker.

Tell me about it. Pedrosa is light, 105 lbs? And they(TV coverage) were on pedrosa's bike camera a lap after Rossi passed him, in his draft and the M1 was just leaving him for dead, checked out. Then he went on to kill the lap record, at this track with long straights.

I love the V4 platform, if Honda or anyone ever introduces another V4 sportbike I'm buying it because it's something different and I'm not doing anything more than trackdays from now on. I was convinced last year the old I4 was history, but it still has some life in it for a racing platform, proven.

[247]

Well, Stoner was quite a bit faster at Qatar then in 2007.
But so was everybody else, partly because it was a night race and much cooler.

Let's look at it another way.

If you take the gaps between Rossi and Stoner for the 2007 and 2008 races (at Estoril, China, Qatar and Jerez) Stoner and Rossi were essentially tied. Do the same thing for 2008 and Rossi is ahead by 46 seconds.

2007
Qatar- Stoner plus 3
China- Stoner plus 4
Estoril- Rossi plus 2
Jerez- Rossi plus 5

2008
Qatar- Stoner plus 13
China- Rossi plus 16
Estoril- Rossi plus 14
Jerez- Rossi plus 29

Originally Posted by wdavis009

That's only one race, a race where Stoner switched to a soft compound rear at the last minute (as recommended by Bridgestone) due to concerns about weather. In addition, Stoner himself stated he was off pace yesterday. So, I don't think you can make generalizations about the Ducati based only on yesterday's results. Instead, take a look at Qatar this year compaired to last year (where Stoner used the same tires).

[XFBO]

Wow that's some analysis there Jeff, work a lil slow today?