Even with gas at $4, does a bike make sense?

[sburns2421]

Compared to an efficient car, that is. I have an SUV that mostly sits now and gets 17 mpg. I also have a little beater Honda Civic that gets 32 that I now drive 95% of the time.

Motorcycledaily recently had an invitation to email them regarding commuting on a bike to save gas. They cited the Ducati 848 getting 50 mpg as starting the idea. Probably one of the worst bikes to use for that purpose, IMO. But you get the idea.

Seriously, even though a bike may get 50 mpg, by the time you buy four sets of tires (compared to a car), change the oil twice as often, do routine maitnenance, replace chains and sprockets, etc, how can you justify riding a bike from purely a dollars and cents points of view?

Would any bike really add up? How long would a Ninja 250 last screaming along on the Interstate every day?

My response to them (not printed), was that you simply cannot rationally do it, and my bikes remain for enjoyment.

So what say you on the subject?

[flippy]

Other parts of the world can't be wrong, right? Europe and Asia in particular use small cc bikes to commute all the time.

I say that bike is more efficient than a car even with the mentioned maintenance.

Anyone have some facts?

[Red Enough]

Commuting on a Ducati sport bike and comparing it with a small car is like comparing the costs between an F18 and a Cessna.
Maybe comparing a GS500 or CB750 might be more reasonable.
Or a Ducati 848 and a Ferrari or something.

[nycstripes]

My 6 cylinder Honda Valkyrie is as bad on fuel as my Durango...being that its seasonal to ride in NYC, I will still get my rides to work in either way because I enjoy it. I guess I will plant a tree or something...

Ken

[Latebraker]

Six months of winter is my answer to the question, like it or not bikes are toys in this part of the country.

[Dragger]

Suzuki DRZ400SM 55-60mpg.

Lightweight and low hp/tq so the tires last, the tires are cheaper(150-160 rear) and you can use longer lasting, harder compound tires. Also the chain/sprockets last longer. Do the valve checks yourself(easy) and you can go 2500-3000 miles between oil changes which is cheap(doesn't hold much oil) and easier than changing oil in a car.

Just avoid the interstate, get some soft saddle bags, and your neck muscles will adapt over time.


I wouldn't consider getting any current sportbike to save money on gas, just isn't worth it. Now if the Japanese introduce 250-400cc(other than the Ninja 250, not much of a sportbike) sportbikes with cylinder shut-off and other fuel saving tech, that would be a move in the right direction.

I also want to add as the cost of fuel goes up so do the bike related fuel savings. Now how does this look when our gas gets to $5-$6 a gallon, don't think it won't, we've gone more than halfway there in only the past 7 years, should only take 2-3 more at the rate of increase we are seeing.

[douglasthecook]

For me it's not the price of gas. I don't like sitting in traffic in my car. Commuting on a motorcycle is my way of making something not so enjoyable better. Granted in a car you can have heat-A/C, cruise control, cd/mp3 player etc. On a bike I don't need any of that. Riding my bike is theraputic, where sitting in traffic in my car just works me up. Sure the price of gas sucks, but we pay it, and pretty much always will, so I do the best for my soul, not necessarily my pocketbook.

[jimi]

Actually, around here commuting on a little sportbike works well. Easy to lanesplit in traffic. It's gotten hard on my BMW now that everyone drives a huge SUV or F250 with the effen tow mirrors all the way out. My handlebars on that bike are at the same height, and there are times I can't get by. On my past sportbikes, it was effortless everywhere. The gas savings was nice too, but commuting really takes it's toll on your nice rubber. Nothing like a nice set of $300+ tires squared off going to and from work.

When I lived in VA, and couldn't lane split, there was not much point to commuting by bike. The weather sucked most of the time, and you just sit there breathing car exhaust while your bike overheats. I did it for years, but it sucked.

I did the math a while back, and when you take into account the higher maintenance costs per mile on bikes, it takes a chunk off the gas savings. Especially if you have a high dollar, frequently serviced bike like a Ducati or 950/990 KTM and don't turn your own wrenches.

[roadkill]

Originally Posted by douglasthecook

For me it's not the price of gas. I don't like sitting in traffic in my car. Commuting on a motorcycle is my way of making something not so enjoyable better. Granted in a car you can have heat-A/C, cruise control, cd/mp3 player etc. On a bike I don't need any of that. Riding my bike is theraputic, where sitting in traffic in my car just works me up. Sure the price of gas sucks, but we pay it, and pretty much always will, so I do the best for my soul, not necessarily my pocketbook.

+1 Being on my VFR is much more fun than being in either my truck or my
SUV.....however, sportbikes are not meant for rush hour where you are just inching along and are often stopped.....they overheat in a hurry......my R6's were the same way.

[viper1]

Originally Posted by Latebraker

Six months of winter is my answer to the question, like it or not bikes are toys in this part of the country.

Yup!

BUT - I'll be riding to work everyday it's nice out here in WI.....The F150 & Armada just isnt cutting it with the mpg. Even if I can onlt take it two days per week, that alone will save a boat load of cash in gas!

[drthompson65]

If I don't have my wrist in it my Duc gets 42 to 44 MPG. I've commuted on sportbikes for a while now without any issues. Even at 4 bucks a gallon 16 dollars gets me to and from work for a week versus 55 for my BMW now.

[DougS.]

have a klr650 50+mpg, vw corrado (toy) 25-30mpg, jeep wrangler (daily driver) 14mpg. last year i put over 6k on the bike commuting, 8500 total. every 5k mi i do on the bike will save me $1000 in ga. luckily tires last a long time due to the arm stretching 35hp. oil changes cost $20 every 2k mi so im waaayyyy ahead of the game in cost savings.

[Old Fart]

Originally Posted by Latebraker

Six months of winter is my answer to the question, like it or not bikes are toys in this part of the country.

How true! Back in the mid 70's I was working in a bike shop during the oil embargo days. Man, we couldn't put the wheels on new bikes fast enough. A lot of guys justified buying their new toys for a 5 month season based on the exorbitant price of fuel. What,,, 80 cents per gallon?

The only areas where a bike can be justified for daily transport is in latitudes that are warm all year. In Europe and other countries that are heavy in bike transport the fuel costs are typically a lot more than the $4 we see in this country. Today I think gas in England is $11 for the equivalent US gallon. Parking a car in some cities is also a problem so bikes thrive there.

Having said this, the only logical bike choice is something totally non sporty , fitted with high mileage cheap Cheng Shin tires and gets 60+ mpg. I think that Cheng Shin translated to English means 'almost round'.

Yeah my 998 duc can get over 50 mpg, but feeding it tires at $300+ for a set for a commuter bike would get old pretty fast. In Rome there is the plethora of scooters up to 500cc. You get insane mileage, some weather protection, and a lot of under seat storage. Office kids ride the 50's and mid level execs ride the big scooters. I have an old 86 goldwing that gets into the low 40's if I don't hammer it. I could put on a set of bakelite hard Avons and get about 16,000 miles out of them. But god I hate riding that pig. I can drink coffee while riding it, listen to the radio and it hauls a lot of stuff though.
Riding an increased volume of smaller bikes on the freeways here is a problem as many are dumb enough to do it. We would have box scores in the newspapers showing todays kill rate. Some countries won't allow bikes under X cc on the freeways. Once the republicrats push gas to $8 per gallon we will see more things like Smart cars on the roads. In the warmer climes there also will be an explosion of smaller cheap bikes for people with relatively short commutes.

Good thread!

[Beattie_Yo]

my 3-cyl, Subaru Justy GL, get waaaaayyyy better mpg than my RC51... $30 bucks to fill up (NJ prices) and im good for nearly 400 miles...my RC51 cost $12-13 to fill up and im good for 100 miles maybe 150

[sburns2421]

Let me try to do this on the cheap, here are a few options. Let us assume that you will use the vehicle 100,000 miles (72 months for example). All of these would be approximate costs.

I am assuming:
-no major repairs
-gas averages $4
-everything but tire changes DIY
-it is a third vehicle in the household

Option A: Used little car, say a Honda Civic with 100,000 miles already, solid car can be bought for $5k.
Fuel @ 30 mpg = $0.1333/mile
Oil changes (every 6k miles, $25 for oil, $4 for filter) = $0.0048/mile
Other filters (every 20k miles, $50) = $.0025/mile
Transmission fluid (every 20k miles, $70 for Honda fluid) = $.0035/mile
Brakes (two full sets or rotors & pads $300 each time) = $.006/mile
Tires (three sets @ $250 per set) = $.0075/mile
Insurance ($50/month x 72 months = $.036/mile
Residual value of 200k car is $2500 = -$.025/mile
Total = $0.1686/mile or $16,860 to drive 100k miles in 6 years ($234/month)

Option B: Used bigger motorcycle (perhaps VFR750 or CBR1100XX with 20k miles), solid bike can be found for $5k.
Fuel @ 45 mpg = $0.0888/mile
Oil changes (every 3k miles, $32 for oil, $10 for filter) = $0.014/mile
Chain & Sprockets (every 20k miles, $150) = $.0075/mile
Brakes (one set of front rotors, $300. Five Sets of pads, $100 each time) = $.008/mile
Clutch (one replacement, $150)=$.0015
Various gaskets and parts for maintenance ($800) = $.008
Tires (ten sets @ $300 per set) = $.03/mile
Insurance ($35/month x 72 months) = $.0252/mile
Residual value of 120k bike is maybe $2000 = -$.02/mile
Total = $0.163/mile or $16,300 to ride 100k miles in 6 years ($226/month)

Option C: Used or new small bike (Ninja 250 or DRZ400 for example)
Fuel @ 60 mpg = $0.0667/mile
Oil changes (every 3k miles, $32 for oil, $10 for filter) = $0.014/mile
Chain & Sprockets (every 20k miles, $150) = $.0075/mile
Brakes (one set front rotor, $150. Five Sets of pads, $60 each time) = $.0045/mile
Clutch (one replacement, $150)=$.0015
Various gaskets and parts for maintenance ($800) = $.008
Tires (ten sets @ $250 per set) = $.025/mile
Insurance ($30/month x 72 months) = $.0216/mile
Residual value of 100k bike, will it even make it that far? $0 = 0/mile
Total = $0.1488/mile or $14,880 to ride 100k miles in 6 years ($206/month)

However, options B & C assumes you ride 100% of the time. Rain or shine. No picking up kids or dry cleaning on the way home. etc.

[banda]

Originally Posted by sburns2421

Let me try to do this on the cheap, ...

Option A: Used little car, say a Honda Civic with 100,000 miles already,
...
Total = $0.1686/mile or $16,860 to drive 100k miles in 6 years ($234/month)

Option B: Used bigger motorcycle (perhaps VFR750 or CBR1100XX with
...
Total = $0.163/mile or $16,300 to ride 100k miles in 6 years ($226/month)

Option C: Used or new small bike (Ninja 250 or DRZ400 for example)
...
Total = $0.1488/mile or $14,880 to ride 100k miles in 6 years ($206/month)

However, options B & C assumes you ride 100% of the time. Rain or shine. No picking up kids or dry cleaning on the way home. etc.

This is a very good, very thoughtful analysis. I did the same thing two years ago, comparing the operating costs of my Toyota Echo and my Triumph Speed Four, and the Toyota was measurably cheaper to operate, as well as having A/C, protection from the elements, cargo capacity, etc.

I like your numbers - they point to a great question: Would you pay an extra $20/mo to not get rained on, to have A/C, to be able to carry groceries or a passenger, and to listen to the radio? I would. But then, my commute is all freeway, boring as hell. When I ride to work I just feel like I'm wasting tires.

The next scenario to analyze is the cost of a two vehicle garage, miles split 50/50 between an economy car and an economy two wheeler (Burgman?) If that comes close to break-even (compared to the economy car alone) then it would be worthwhile, just for the novelty of riding to work half the time.

[Old Fart]

Excellent analysis sburns. Numbers state that unless you use the bike 100% it's still cheaper to drive a car. Dang.........

[20_RC51_00]

Personally I wouldn't mind the high gas prices if they were for more then greater profits for the oil companies... they are all making bigger and bigger $$$ with these prices, so I don't think that it truly reflects global supply/demand. If the higher prices were because of greater taxes that could be put to use for research for alternate fuels or infrastructure I'd be fine with it, it would also make us economize it's use. But where it stands I think it's purley lining the pockets of the big companies with more and more $$$ nothing else, which is just bullshit in my opinions....they are just gouging us.....because they can...

[Dragger]

Originally Posted by sburns2421

Let me try to do this on the cheap, here are a few options. Let us assume that you will use the vehicle 100,000 miles (72 months for example). All of these would be approximate costs.

I am assuming:
-no major repairs
-gas averages $4
-everything but tire changes DIY
-it is a third vehicle in the household

Option A: Used little car, say a Honda Civic with 100,000 miles already, solid car can be bought for $5k.
Fuel @ 30 mpg = $0.1333/mile
Oil changes (every 6k miles, $25 for oil, $4 for filter) = $0.0048/mile
Other filters (every 20k miles, $50) = $.0025/mile
Transmission fluid (every 20k miles, $70 for Honda fluid) = $.0035/mile
Brakes (two full sets or rotors & pads $300 each time) = $.006/mile
Tires (three sets @ $250 per set) = $.0075/mile
Insurance ($50/month x 72 months = $.036/mile
Residual value of 200k car is $2500 = -$.025/mile
Total = $0.1686/mile or $16,860 to drive 100k miles in 6 years ($234/month)

Option B: Used bigger motorcycle (perhaps VFR750 or CBR1100XX with 20k miles), solid bike can be found for $5k.
Fuel @ 45 mpg = $0.0888/mile
Oil changes (every 3k miles, $32 for oil, $10 for filter) = $0.014/mile
Chain & Sprockets (every 20k miles, $150) = $.0075/mile
Brakes (one set of front rotors, $300. Five Sets of pads, $100 each time) = $.008/mile
Clutch (one replacement, $150)=$.0015
Various gaskets and parts for maintenance ($800) = $.008
Tires (ten sets @ $300 per set) = $.03/mile
Insurance ($35/month x 72 months) = $.0252/mile
Residual value of 120k bike is maybe $2000 = -$.02/mile
Total = $0.163/mile or $16,300 to ride 100k miles in 6 years ($226/month)

Option C: Used or new small bike (Ninja 250 or DRZ400 for example)
Fuel @ 60 mpg = $0.0667/mile
Oil changes (every 3k miles, $32 for oil, $10 for filter) = $0.014/mile
Chain & Sprockets (every 20k miles, $150) = $.0075/mile
Brakes (one set front rotor, $150. Five Sets of pads, $60 each time) = $.0045/mile
Clutch (one replacement, $150)=$.0015
Various gaskets and parts for maintenance ($800) = $.008
Tires (ten sets @ $250 per set) = $.025/mile
Insurance ($30/month x 72 months) = $.0216/mile
Residual value of 100k bike, will it even make it that far? $0 = 0/mile
Total = $0.1488/mile or $14,880 to ride 100k miles in 6 years ($206/month)

However, options B & C assumes you ride 100% of the time. Rain or shine. No picking up kids or dry cleaning on the way home. etc.

Good est. on the numbers, only thing I see are the DRZ uses alot less oil than a bigger bike but it's a single cylinder not designed for constant 60mph speeds for 20-30 min at a time. It's gonna need a rebuild at least once or two times in 100,000 miles.

I'm not really worried about $4 a gallon, the crisis will hit us, all of us, when gas hits $5.50-$6 a gallon. How do the numbers look then?

[Area 51]

I have a five minute commute to work so I could drive a Hummer and it wouldn't make any difference...if I was dumb enough to buy one of those POS, which I'm not .