Why is Melandri Struggling So Much?

[Red Enough]

Originally Posted by tmoneyr007

How good was he in 2006?

I think he did remarkably well for a rookie surrounded by 250cc 2-stroke mechanics.
He didn't even have a full-time engine guy!

[mikstr]

Maybe it's that stinky, peaky V-4 he's riding...

[tmoneyr007]

Originally Posted by bsess

He was a rookie who was fast, led races and crashed a fair amount. He was also pretty unhappy with what he perceived was a lack of support from Honda and his team.

Ahhh, so he cried about his equipment and ended up 8th in the standings while Pedrosa and Hayden both ended up 5th in their first years? Stoner with one podium his first year and Pedrosa 8 and Hayden 2.

[bsess]

Originally Posted by tmoneyr007

Ahhh, so he cried about his equipment and ended up 8th in the standings while Pedrosa and Hayden both ended up 5th in their first years? Stoner with one podium his first year and Pedrosa 8 and Hayden 2.

And your point is........?

[sqd8r]

Originally Posted by bsess

Marco Melandri, former MotoGP championship runner-up and winner of five premier class races, has struggled mightily on the factory Ducati thus far. He is on what many believe to be the best bike with the best tires, TC and engine management technology. So what gives? Why was he mired in 15th place at the Jerez tests? Last year, some speculated that Capirossi, who also never came to grips with the so called "best bike" on the grid, was experiencing an erosion of skills due to age perhaps or the arrival of a newborn. While Loris isn't exactly lighting the world on fire with Suzuki, he has been doing better thus far than Vermuelen which would suggest that rumors of his declining abilities were incorrect.

Melandri and quite a lot of other riders have been able to go fast on the Honda. This year, a surprising number of riders, both veteran and rookie, have been flying on the Yamaha. Melandri has plenty of experience on Bridgestones so it can't be the tires.

Does he have a unique style or set-up preference that just does not work with the Ducati? If so, what might that style or set-up be? How is Stoner's approach to riding that bike different from others who have or are currently riding it?

The most important question I'd love to see answered is this:
Why is it that Stoner has been the only one out of a total of 10 riders who is consistently able to go fast on what many consider to be the best bike/equipment package in MotoGP? If the Ducati is so great, how come everybody but Stoner sucks on it?

While Ducati are surely very pleased with the results they've achieved thus far, they can't be too happy with the current situation.

Great question.

Personally I'm going with the erosion of talent and second rider status.

Talent: look at most rider's careers and you see the mountain effect where they reach the top and then slowly slide down the other side. It's a small window of opportunity that a rider/driver enjoys where everything in their lives focuses entirely on racing, where everything clicks and often it's in the middle of their career never at the end. Melandri is in the twilight years of his career and the title opportunities are infintisimal, as they are for many others elder statemens of the grid. More often than not we see riders slip into the doldrums of obscurity than enjoy a top level run to the ends of their careers. Rossi, Schumacher, Mladin, Duhamel, Dunlop, Hailwood are the exceptions not the rule.

I do agree that the electronics packages are designed with a lead rider in mind. Hayden wanted more wheelspin accessible for his more dirt track style of riding but was blocked consistently by Honda for a more smoother European style of riding, Pedrosa's style given his size etc. The electronics package was tailored to what the lead rider and engineers deemed relevant based on tire wear etc while the second rider was left out of the equation. I feel this is applicable in Hayden's case I have never felt he was the lead rider once Pedrosa joined the team and I think the same thing is occuring for Melandri.

Even Moto GP teams work within a budget. Ducati moreso than most since they do not enjoy the financial might and plethora of data returned from satellite teams that Honda enjoys and all teams have to work within the confines of the limited testing schedules so the option to explore the ideal electronics package per rider is very limited.

Stoner went from zero to hero with the switch to a factory team. Pre-Ducati he was known as a crasher in the premier class. The switch to a factory team, not the satellite group he was running with, shows the gap between the factories and the also-rans. Stoner didn't just become a riding god, he finally had a package that he could ride effectively on the edge with a comparable electronics package that meets those demands.

[247]

Wasn't the '06 990 Honda more competitve than the '07 800 across the board?

Originally Posted by banda

He was more competitive for LCR than Checa was in '07

[247]

Engine guy? Those engines are sealed, no one has an an engine guy afaik.

Originally Posted by Red Enough

I think he did remarkably well for a rookie surrounded by 250cc 2-stroke mechanics.
He didn't even have a full-time engine guy!

[tmoneyr007]

Originally Posted by bsess

And your point is........?

People need to quit swinging on Stoner's jock, he's a good rider with a great combo of equipment, tires, setup.

IMHO, rider for rider, he's not as good as Marco, Rossi or Hayden.

[XFBO]

Originally Posted by tmoneyr007

People need to quit swinging on Stoner's jock

to join you on Rossi's knob?


I find it amazing to see anyone comparing a satelite team to a fully equipped factory ride. Amazing, you guys will spin up anything to keep arguing a dead point.

[tmoneyr007]

Originally Posted by XFBO

to join you on Rossi's knob?


I find it amazing to see anyone comparing a satelite team to a fully equipped factory ride. Amazing, you guys will spin up anything to keep arguing a dead point.

Wasn't Marco on a satellite team in 05 when he was 2nd in the championship? Between who, Ohh yeah, Rossi and Hayden, all better than Stoner for WAY longer.

[Father Guido Sarducci]

Hayden and Melandri better then Stoner for way longer? Taking into acount that it was only Stoner's 2nd year in Moto GP and that Hayden and Melandri have been both riding in the class for 5 years your comment makes no sense. Some facts for you. Melandri finished 12th his first year and has 5 career wins. Hayden finished 5th his first year, riding on the factory Honda team, has 3 career victories and 1 Moto GP championship. Stoner finished 8th his first year, has 10 career victories and 1 Moto GP championship. Stoner in his 2nd year has more victories than Hayden and Melandri have accumulated in 5 years combined. Now Melandri is on the so proclaimed best bike on the grid and is to date struggling. Maybe Stoner should get a bit more props for what he has accomplished to date?

[247]

Nick has 3 wins, and in Marco's defense he rode the godawful M1 that first year.

[sburns2421]

Originally Posted by 247

Nick has 3 wins, and in Marco's defense he rode the godawful M1 that first year.

And if IIRC MM got hurt pretty badly early in the year and missed a few races.

[tmoneyr007]

Originally Posted by Father Guido Sarducci

Hayden and Melandri better then Stoner for way longer? Taking into acount that it was only Stoner's 2nd year in Moto GP and that Hayden and Melandri have been both riding in the class for 5 years your comment makes no sense. Some facts for you. Melandri finished 12th his first year and has 5 career wins. Hayden finished 5th his first year, riding on the factory Honda team, has 2 career victories and 1 Moto GP championship. Stoner finished 8th his first year, has 10 career victories and 1 Moto GP championship. Stoner in his 2nd year has more victories than Hayden and Melandri have accumulated in 5 years combined. Now Melandri is on the so proclaimed best bike on the grid and is to date struggling. Maybe Stoner should get a bit more props for what he has accomplished to date?

I give Ducatti more props than I'll give Stoner, unless Stoner takes multiple bikes to multiple championships. I still think it's simply Stoner found the right setup and it's going to take about 5-6 years to prove me otherwise, until then he's at least 4th in my mind, clearly behind Rossi and Hayden.

I will be shocked if by the end of the year Marco is not fighting with Stoner for podiums weekly.

[bsess]

Originally Posted by tmoneyr007

I give Ducatti more props than I'll give Stoner, unless Stoner takes multiple bikes to multiple championships. I still think it's simply Stoner found the right setup and it's going to take about 5-6 years to prove me otherwise, until then he's at least 4th in my mind, clearly behind Rossi and Hayden.

I will be shocked if by the end of the year Marco is not fighting with Stoner for podiums weekly.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if someone, anyone other than Stoner, could somehow manage to consistently lap quickly on the Ducati. Loris is not done. He was quick on the 990cc Duck and he's been quicker than CV on the Zook. But he couldn't do it. The folks here who argued in favor of bike over rider and who said Loris was done have still failed to address this point.

Stoner was quick on the Honda and I attribute his success on the Ducati to superior overall skills and adaptablity, not unlike what Rossi demonstrated on the M1. I think Hayden would do well on the Duck as would Rossi undoubtedly. However, while I believe Melandri will have some better days ahead, I will be shocked if he is able to run anywhere near Stoner on a consistent basis this year.

[TheDrizel]

I think Stoner is a fine rider. He is no Rossi, but we have all become so spoiled to Rossi that everything else pales in comparison.

Stoner would have more props in my eyes if he would have been on a somewhat equal bike. All brand loyalties aside, the Ducati was soooo much faster and worked so much better than everyone else. It's hard for me to put that aside and give him full credit for his championship. Not taking anything away from the kid....he's fast but he's not Rossi.
I believe there are many equally talented riders than can win the championship, but I do not believe Stoner is the next 7 year dominant force in MotoGP.

[bsess]

Originally Posted by TheDrizel

Stoner would have more props in my eyes if he would have been on a somewhat equal bike. All brand loyalties aside, the Ducati was soooo much faster and worked so much better than everyone else.

If Stoner is not on it, Ducati don't win a title last year. The bike IS so much better but, so far, only in his hands. If the bike is so incredibly good, how come Melandri is 2-3 seconds a lap slower on race tires so far? Its difficult for me to not attribute the Ducati's tremendous performance potential to Stoner's unique skill in being able to unlock and exploit that potential. Some pretty damn good riders have tried (and continue trying) and have not yet been able to. Until Marco or another Ducati rider wins races and consistently runs up front, I find it difficult not to give Stoner a significant amount of the credit.

[Father Guido Sarducci]

Besides Stoner, what other Ducati rider was able to utilize the performance of the obviously superior than anything on the grid Ducati? Of course he has not accomplished as much as Rossi.....he's only been racing in Moto GP for 2 years. Only time will tell.

[Red Enough]

Originally Posted by 247

Engine guy? Those engines are sealed, no one has an an engine guy afaik.

HRC provide on the spot and up to the minute info for the factory teams via their on-site technicians.
They're usually so busy looking after the big-boys (and the associated sponsors) that satellites don't get the time of day.

[247]

This year's testing has been so screwed up weather-wise it's hard to tell anything.

Originally Posted by bsess

I'd be inclined to agree with you if someone, anyone other than Stoner, could somehow manage to consistently lap quickly on the Ducati. Loris is not done. He was quick on the 990cc Duck and he's been quicker than CV on the Zook. But he couldn't do it. The folks here who argued in favor of bike over rider and who said Loris was done have still failed to address this point.