Problem for Honda's MotoGP Engine?

[247]

I dunno, I say a lot of shit.

I just think that people are seriously discounting Rossi's accomplishments and current skill level.

To say that Rossi would chewed up and spit out by anything is hyperbole. If anyone could ride it, he could ride it.

Originally Posted by XFBO

Jeff, iirc you amongst others have made statements along the lines of, "oh man Nicky, Casey, [insert any current rider but Rossi]....couldnt hang with the Dr. on a 2smoker today"........blahblahblah. That's cool and ok right?

But it seems like the same crew has a problem with ppl making a similiar remark but placing Rossi at the negative end when the older/harder to ride 2smokers are brought up.........why is that?

[Jami6989]

Originally Posted by mrgrn

i call bullshat. rossi can ride anything, he has demonstrated that time and time again

He's been eaten alive and shit out by his competition the last two years. Just cope w/ it already!

[duckdawg]

I say Roberts was better than any of the others, he could ride anything anywhere and kick your ass. Rossi is a great roadracer, 125cc, 250cc, and on to a liter gp bike on the same tracks can do that . Kenny raced everything, including that bike with a I4 two stroke 750 TZ motor stuffed into a flat track chassis (and won on it). I wish they would all show up at a dirt track somewhere and ride Honda 100s, and I was invited...

[bsess]

Originally Posted by ApparitionAGO

What if Rossi wins it all this year? I wonder if people will at last concede just how good he is.

Rossi is among the greatest of all time. I don't think anyone can dispute that. He is the greatest from the current era even though this could change if Stoner manages to take the next two to four titles in a row with Rossi on the same machinery at some point during that time. Incredibly big if, at the moment however.

Its impossible and purely speculative to compare riders from different eras although we all still love to do it. I personally rate Hailwood over Agostini even though he doesn't have the same gaudy career totals. Head to head on MV Augustas, Hailwood was better. On crappy handling Hondas, Hailwood still almost beat him. He was also racing F1 cars at the time and had a 100% winning percentage against Ago when they both rode MVs head to head. After leaving for Honda, Mike and Ago had an equal amount of premier class wins in 66 and 67. The clincher for me is Hailwood's performance at the OIM TT in 67 where he ran down Agostino from a huge deficit. After he caught Ago, Ago's bike broke but Hailwood winning was considered a forgone conclusion by that point.

Thing is, from 1978-1994, the levels of power and grip generated by the bikes in that era dictated that the stop, point and shoot style was the quickest way around most tracks. While high entry and mid corner speeds worked well occasionally at certain tracks (See Mssrs Abe, Kocinski, Cadalora, etc.) it just wouldn't work elsewhere. Rossi's speed entering turns is unparalleled. But could be have adapted? Probably. He also has extraordinary traction feel. But the old bikes would significantly negate one of his greatest strengths. Its very possible Rossi could have regularly beaten Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz and Doohan. Its also quite possible he could have ended up as badly broken (or worse) as ex superbike man Giancarlo Falappa before he got a chance to get up to speed.

With perhaps one or two possible exceptions, (I can only think of Roberts and Lawson at the moment) all the best riders of that era stopped racing due to injuries finally getting the best of them. That list includes riders such as Spencer, Gardner, Rainey, Schwantz, Beattie, and Doohan. With the exception of Doohan the average career of the top racers from that era was about 6 years. Some had more, more had less.

[duckdawg]

just look at the deficets of safety gear for that period...

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by bsess

Rossi is among the greatest of all time. I don't think anyone can dispute that. He is the greatest from the current era even though this could change if Stoner manages to take the next two to four titles in a row with Rossi on the same machinery at some point during that time. Incredibly big if, at the moment however.

Its impossible and purely speculative to compare riders from different eras although we all still love to do it. I personally rate Hailwood over Agostini even though he doesn't have the same gaudy career totals. Head to head on MV Augustas, Hailwood was better. On crappy handling Hondas, Hailwood still almost beat him. He was also racing F1 cars at the time and had a 100% winning percentage against Ago when they both rode MVs head to head. After leaving for Honda, Mike and Ago had an equal amount of premier class wins in 66 and 67. The clincher for me is Hailwood's performance at the OIM TT in 67 where he ran down Agostino from a huge deficit. After he caught Ago, Ago's bike broke but Hailwood winning was considered a forgone conclusion by that point.

Thing is, from 1978-1994, the levels of power and grip generated by the bikes in that era dictated that the stop, point and shoot style was the quickest way around most tracks. While high entry and mid corner speeds worked well occasionally at certain tracks (See Mssrs Abe, Kocinski, Cadalora, etc.) it just wouldn't work elsewhere. Rossi's speed entering turns is unparalleled. But could be have adapted? Probably. He also has extraordinary traction feel. But the old bikes would significantly negate one of his greatest strengths. Its very possible Rossi could have regularly beaten Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz and Doohan. Its also quite possible he could have ended up as badly broken (or worse) as ex superbike man Giancarlo Falappa before he got a chance to get up to speed.

With perhaps one or two possible exceptions, (I can only think of Roberts and Lawson at the moment) all the best riders of that era stopped racing due to injuries finally getting the best of them. That list includes riders such as Spencer, Gardner, Rainey, Schwantz, Beattie, and Doohan. With the exception of Doohan the average career of the top racers from that era was about 6 years. Some had more, more had less.

bull. let stoner win a few more, then switch to a crap bike and then still win and then maybe he will be close

stoner never saw pressure last year

[bsess]

Originally Posted by mrgrn

stoner never saw pressure last year

Funny you should mention that. Rossi never experienced any serious competitive pressure until 2006. In the last race, he didn't have to do anything but cruise around. But when your boy, Nicky Hayden, put the screws in and started running down Capirossi and Bayliss, he panicked, choked, spit the bit, cracked, folded like a deck-chair and LOST the title. His comeback that year was spectacular and there was no pressure then because everybody expected Hayden to win. After Estoril, there was even less pressure on Rossi as the title was in the bag. At Valencia, Rossi took Pole position while Hayden was in the middle of the second row. As soon as the race began, Hayden put the pressure on, blowing by Rossi at the start and smacking fairings in the process. Hayden (who was under tremendous pressure) proved to be the tougher man that year. Rossi, as great as he is, has yet to demonstrate the ability to cope with competitive pressure.

[Jami6989]

Originally Posted by bsess

Funny you should mention that. Rossi never experienced any serious competitive pressure until 2006. In the last race, he didn't have to do anything but cruise around. But when your boy, Nicky Hayden, put the screws in and started running down Capirossi and Bayliss, he panicked, choked, spit the bit, cracked, folded like a deck-chair and LOST the title. His comeback that year was spectacular and there was no pressure then because everybody expected Hayden to win. After Estoril, there was even less pressure on Rossi as the title was in the bag. At Valencia, Rossi took Pole position while Hayden was in the middle of the second row. As soon as the race began, Hayden put the pressure on, blowing by Rossi at the start and smacking fairings in the process. Hayden (who was under tremendous pressure) proved to be the tougher man that year. Rossi, as great as he is, has yet to demonstrate the ability to cope with competitive pressure.

Leghumper Nation just got pwned!

[tmoneyr007]

Originally Posted by bsess

Funny you should mention that. Rossi never experienced any serious competitive pressure until 2006.

Man this guys been watching different races than I have since 2000

There is a difference between competition in a race and competition for the championship, Stoner had neither last year. Rossi in the past has had competition in races in each season, while the overall championship might night have been close, the races were. (until the last couple of laps when Rossi usually checks out)

[duckdawg]

when the going gets tough, Rossi falls off...

[TheDrizel]

When is Ducati gonna mount a horn on Stoner's bike?

[bsess]

Originally Posted by tmoneyr007

Man this guys been watching different races than I have since 2000

There is a difference between competition in a race and competition for the championship, Stoner had neither last year. Rossi in the past has had competition in races in each season, while the overall championship might night have been close, the races were. (until the last couple of laps when Rossi usually checks out)

Valencia in 2006 was one race for the championsip. Winner take all except Rossi didn't actually need to come close to winning it. Hayden's motto for the race was "All in." Rossi's was apparently, "fall off."

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by bsess

Funny you should mention that. Rossi never experienced any serious competitive pressure until 2006. In the last race, he didn't have to do anything but cruise around. But when your boy, Nicky Hayden, put the screws in and started running down Capirossi and Bayliss, he panicked, choked, spit the bit, cracked, folded like a deck-chair and LOST the title. His comeback that year was spectacular and there was no pressure then because everybody expected Hayden to win. After Estoril, there was even less pressure on Rossi as the title was in the bag. At Valencia, Rossi took Pole position while Hayden was in the middle of the second row. As soon as the race began, Hayden put the pressure on, blowing by Rossi at the start and smacking fairings in the process. Hayden (who was under tremendous pressure) proved to be the tougher man that year. Rossi, as great as he is, has yet to demonstrate the ability to cope with competitive pressure.

do you think B4 you write?

the fact you use Hayden and stoner with Rossi just shows you are clueless

what about rossis 250, 500, and 990 battles, no competition, are you watching the same races????

[bsess]

Originally Posted by mrgrn

do you think B4 you write?

the fact you use Hayden and stoner with Rossi just shows you are clueless

what about rossis 250, 500, and 990 battles, no competition, are you watching the same races????

The grownups were talking about "pressure" and not competition. You may return to watching Elmo now.......

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by bsess

The grownups were talking about "pressure" and not competition. You may return to watching Elmo now.......

who was that? you and the troll????

Sete was not competiton?

you act like rossi zoomed around and won easily and hi wins were nothing and now Great Nicky has defeated the field like Hercules and now stoner has done the same LOL

Rossi has proven to be one of the best if not the best rider to set his legs over a seat and youz dismiss it as easy and luck instead of grace and ability and you use grownups in a sentence, how silly BS

[mrgrn]

Originally Posted by bsess

Valencia in 2006 was one race for the championsip. Winner take all except Rossi didn't actually need to come close to winning it. Hayden's motto for the race was "All in." Rossi's was apparently, "fall off."

OK, then explain the reason why Nicky has 3 wins then?

falling off is a result of trying and that is the reason he has 3 wins, he does not go for it 100% and it is all in the numbers for you to read

[bsess]

Originally Posted by mrgrn

who was that? you and the troll????

Sete was not competiton? Dude. You're not listening. I said PRESSURE!! Not competition. Do you u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d? Sete represented a level of competition that I don't believe was ultimately very challenging to Rossi.

you act like rossi zoomed around and won easily and hi wins were nothing and now Great Nicky has defeated the field like Hercules and now stoner has done the same LOL. While Rossi put on a great show, he was so much better than the field. I have no doubt he toyed with his competitors on and off the track like a cat does with a mouse. Oh look! The mouse broke free!! He's getting away!! Oh.........no he di in't..........

Rossi has proven to be one of the best if not the best rider to set his legs over a seat and youz dismiss it as easy and luck instead of grace and ability and you use grownups in a sentence, how silly BS

"Rossi is among the greatest of all time. I don't think anyone can dispute that. He is the greatest from the current era..." That's one of my quotes on this page. Too bad you can't read.....

[drsus]

Rossi made a mistake by ditching Michelin at the first sign of trouble, that was stupid and wrong to not give Michelin a chance over the off season to prove themselves. Hes also in charge of development at Yamaha and at some point he should had told Yamaha (or maybe he did, who knows) the current configuration (in 2007) was just not going anywhere...thus changing things for 2008, they didnt.

So, Rossi is ridding a pile of crap that not even he can make go fast enough...then his fix for 2008 is putting Stones on it with out knowing what the result would be, instead of sticking to Michelins like every Yamaha...making development easier instead of going at it alone.
So, Rossis only fault was going in the wrong direction in development.... i mean the dude has been in charge of A team development his whole life it seems..... he got sloppy i think, period.

BUT!! by NO means we need to forget who he is! and what he can do on a bike... people are so quick to shoot the king at first chance. If you cant see that Rossi is struggling like he is because the bike just wont do any better, then you just shooting at him because no one ever thought Rossi would be in the position to be shot at, whether its his fault or not. I understand its fun to shoot at people that once seemed invincible, but no one is buying it hhere, we all know who Rossi is.

[sburns2421]

If Honda is having trouble with their engine, the competition will hate to see it when they get it working correctly.

Didn't Turdrosa blow past Stoner at Valencia last year on the straight?

Wasn't the "talent-challenged" Hayden fastest along with Rossi and Stoner at Jerez?