MotoCzysz Documentary - Page 3 - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums  

Go Back   Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums > General Motorcycle Discussion > Street & Track

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 10:12 PM
bsess's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 1,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball View Post
Truly a thread full of negative people! Why compare the 2, other then both were great ideas, by great minds, who each had the balls to take a chance on something no else did! I guess if Jesus Christ came out with a new superbike there would be people on this forum kicking it square in the ass to. So what if its a 300HP, single cylinder, bulletproof engine that runs on a tank full of plain ol' fook'n water! Its JUNK!
Thank you. I find it pathetic when do-nothing, coach tubers denigrate the efforts of brave folks who take risks and try to innovate.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 10:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 429
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball View Post
Truly a thread full of negative people! Why compare the 2, other then both were great ideas, by great minds, who each had the balls to take a chance on something no else did! I guess if Jesus Christ came out with a new superbike there would be people on this forum kicking it square in the ass to. So what if its a 300HP, single cylinder, bulletproof engine that runs on a tank full of plain ol' fook'n water! Its JUNK!
You're a con man's wet dream.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 10:55 PM
bsess's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New York, New York
Posts: 1,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschmidt View Post
You're a con man's wet dream.
Would that make you all wet then?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:01 PM
247 247 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,993
Default

Absolutely. Michael Czsyz has built a fantastic bike, even if it never races. I like it a lot, it looks different, the workmanship is amazing, the design is original and it sounds amazing. And my pointless speculation says it could win some lower level national and international series races like the Britten did.

Is it capable of running with a World Superbike or MotoGP bike? No.

Guess what, the (almost) universally worshipped Britten couldn't hang with a top shelf superbike in its time either. Just for the record, I love the Britten. The bike, the story, the man. Awesome.

I'm sure there were dickheads in New Zealand denigrating the Britten back in the day too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bsess View Post
Thank you. I find it pathetic when do-nothing, couch tubers denigrate the efforts of brave folks who take risks and try to innovate.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:15 PM
247 247 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,993
Default

God, what a moto-bigot! Ignorant, aren't you?

The Drysdale was nothing more than 2 FZ400 top ends on a common crancase, a backyard special.
Bimota have made some of the most beautiful motorcycles of all time, plus they've won superbike races and even a F1 world championship. Why are they being trashed?
And WTF is a Vun? Are you trying to refer to the Voxan?


Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkill View Post
How was this motorcycle any different from the Drysdale bike or Bimota or the Vun...? Fact is, there have always been innovators and tinkerers out there producing interesting things..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 12:00 AM
Run n hide's Avatar
Writer of Wrongs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 247 View Post
And my pointless speculation says it could win some lower level national and international series races like the Britten did.
First off let me just say I wasn’t hating on the Cysz. I actually think that some of his designs are very good ideas i.e. the single shock front suspension. These are daring ideas and I think it does take some balls to go against the norm and fly in the face of convention. I am just not ready to hang a wreath around his neck for “good” ideas.

The comparison I take issue with is comparing it to the Britten in the case of race history. True both bikes are similar in the sense that both were designed by brilliant and innovative men. Both bikes run away from trends and blaze their own path, but that is where the comparisons stop. Had others on this board stopped there I would not have even posted here.

Yet some people like to play Ouija board racer and have a revisionist history. Even this I have no issue with. If you’re such a fan of the Cysz that you would like to predict what hasn’t happened yet its fine with me. The problem comes when someone degenerates the proven race history of the Britten by saying that because it wasn’t as fast as a superbike of its era its wins are of no consequence and the Cysz would do better in race if it ever races. There were so many things wrong with that idea I don’t know where to start. First off the Britten was not considered a “Superbike” in the since of the word although it won a Superbike race. This would be like comparing Lorenzo riding a 250cc versus Rossi riding the 990cc. They were both winners of races, but who do think got the lower lap times? The Britten was a 1000cc air cooled twin, the Cysz is a 1000cc liquid cooled V4.
If the Cysz ever makes it to Daytona to turn a wheel in anger in a race who do you think would get the lower lap times? Keeping in mind that the Brittens lap times were recorded over ten years ago I would hope the Cysz is faster. But we will never know will we?
__________________
More fun than a clown car on fire!

'01 Duc 748/853
'03 Kaw ZX-7R
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 12:32 AM
roadkill's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 3,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 247 View Post
God, what a moto-bigot! Ignorant, aren't you?

The Drysdale was nothing more than 2 FZ400 top ends on a common crancase, a backyard special.
Bimota have made some of the most beautiful motorcycles of all time, plus they've won superbike races and even a F1 world championship. Why are they being trashed?
And WTF is a Vun? Are you trying to refer to the Voxan?
Ya know, I have been on this site for years now and have enjoyed spirited back and forth on many a topic. In all that time, I have never called anyone "ignorant". Perhaps you should try being more civil....makes for a better site.

If the Drysdale was "nothing more than 2 FZ400 top ends on a common crankcase, a backyard special", then what was the MotoCZYZ....a Suzuki Gixxer motor literally bandsawed in half. How was this one bit different? One man's backyard special is another man's........?

Who was trashing Bimotas?????

"WTF" is a Vun? Ever heard of Google? Vun Rotax Single by Cafe Racers and Superbikes - The Kneeslider

BTW, thanks for reminding me of the name of the French bike....Voxan it was and a wild beast to boot. That guy was every bit as innovative as Michael Czyz in my opinion.....but motorcycle manufacturing is a money pit and even the filthy rich have a limit as to how much money disappears down that hole as Michael Czyz has already found out. He plastered his "give me a $100,000 deposit and I will make you a world class superbike" spiel all over the motorcycle world but did not collect more than a handful of checks if any.....well, I guess Jay Leno probably ponied up to add to his collection.

What the hell is a moto-bigot? Don't believe there are any on this site.

Cheers......now bring on the racin'. I'm ready to watch some epic battles....MotoGP, WSBK, WSS, AMA, British Superbike.....Albanian Moped Endurance Championship.
__________________
Only one left not in captivity.
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 01:23 AM
Busy Little Shop's Avatar
V4 CyclePath...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sacramento Ca
Posts: 6,827
Default

Mr.Czysz gleans over the fact that his V4 design is plagued with
internal friction but he excitedly points to the electrical driven
water pump designed to cut friction... weird...
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 01:56 AM
roadkill's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 3,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
Mr.Czysz gleans over the fact that his V4 design is plagued with
internal friction but he excitedly points to the electrical driven
water pump designed to cut friction... weird...
I am still puzzled as to how this motor would be classified as a V4 when it is two halves of a I4 splayed out from the centerline in opposite directions and end to end....note the end to end part.....I would not consider this a V4 which would imply two cylinders DIRECTLY opposing two cylinders with a COMMON crankshaft.
__________________
Only one left not in captivity.
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 02:19 AM
Run n hide's Avatar
Writer of Wrongs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 79
Default

Cyszs actually calls it a Z line 4

MotoCzysz 07C1_tech
__________________
More fun than a clown car on fire!

'01 Duc 748/853
'03 Kaw ZX-7R
Reply With Quote
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 07:41 AM
Busy Little Shop's Avatar
V4 CyclePath...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sacramento Ca
Posts: 6,827
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkill View Post
I am still puzzled as to how this motor would be classified as a V4 when it is two halves of a I4 splayed out from the centerline in opposite directions and end to end....note the end to end part.....I would not consider this a V4 which would imply two cylinders DIRECTLY opposing two cylinders with a COMMON crankshaft.
I don't consider it much of a V4 either... but the press did coin it during the roll out...
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
Reply With Quote
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 01:57 PM
247 247 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,993
Default

The Britten was air-cooled? Shit.

I never knew that, which is embarrasing. I'm afraid I don't know shit about the Britten!

Look, all I'm saying is that conventional wisdom dictates that the Britten was virtually faultless and could blow away anything on the track, when in reality it had tons of teething problems, was unreliable and (just like the Czysz) seemed to have some inherent flaws (or weaknesses if you prefer) that were caused by its innovative design.

Yes, John Britten chose to race the bike and did quite well. But it's important to realize that they chose their battles carefully and might have been more concerned with beating mediocre competition than competing at the top levels. Of course, that would be a result of the path that Britten CHOSE to get the money and backing he would need to build more bikes and compete at higher levels in the future. That was really the only option for a smart guy, with relatively little resources from Christchurch, NZ.

But, isn't that the "big fish, small pond" scenario that is so often hated on here at 'zillaworld?

Czysz set his sights high, way high. Too high apparently, but why slam him for that? He had a lot more money than Britten, and thought he could raise more, enough to race at the world level. He is a millionaire from California who chose another route, build a prototype, promote the heck out of it and try to raise some serious money.

They just had different visions, and the paths they chose were different based on different amounts of resources and the places and times they were operating in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Run n hide View Post
The comparison I take issue with is comparing it to the Britten in the case of race history. True both bikes are similar in the sense that both were designed by brilliant and innovative men. Both bikes run away from trends and blaze their own path, but that is where the comparisons stop... The Britten was a 1000cc air cooled twin, the Cysz is a 1000cc liquid cooled V4.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 03:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 311
Default

Um, the Britten was liquid cooled. I don't know of too many 160hp air cooled twins

The Britten won the Daytona battle of the twins and the BEARs world championship amongst others. It certainly bet distributor backed superbike teams in the New Zealand Superbike championship.

Perhaps most impressively for those who seem to think it wasn't actually competitive is that it beat factory Ducatis in the Daytona win which were the fastest 4 stroke racers in the world at the time. It also set fastest trap speeds at the Isle of Mann. So probably not slow then? For a guy to build a totally radical innovative machine in his shed and then have it play with factory Dukes is pretty impressive.

I know when it flew by my Rob Muzzy kitted ZX-R750H2 in a straight line that it was a pretty fast machine. That is what you get with 166bhp and 138kg
Reply With Quote
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 04:22 PM
roadkill's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Decatur, GA
Posts: 3,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 247 View Post

He is a millionaire from California
Huh? Here is the site of his business.....


Architropolis
__________________
Only one left not in captivity.
Reply With Quote
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 11:42 PM
drsus's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hollyweird
Posts: 2,564
Send a message via AIM to drsus
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrutt View Post
Pretty easy to throw insults and negative comments at Cysz.

What the hell have you done to create your own bike and think outside the box. not a damn thing. So unless you can and have done better..STFU.
that has to be my all time favorite lame comback... the typical "you cant dog on things unless you have done the same".. phulease!! it works to an extend, then you realize its a mutte point.

so we cant talk politics, sports, religion unless we are politicians, athletes and ministers??

this Cys bike is lame only for one reason.... IT'S ALL TALK!!!

had he put this bike on the racetrack YEARS ago when it started, i dont care if it blew up 5 minutes after every flag drop, i would had had TONS of respect for the effort and would had been excited to see them TRY.... get it?

instead every year we get a new check out how amazing I am... and my bike.... testing video... race or shut up already, its old.


thats why.

Last edited by drsus; 02-03-2008 at 06:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008, 01:08 AM
247 247 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,993
Default

He's from Oregon, my mistake. And a millionaire architect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadkill View Post
Huh? Here is the site of his business.....


Architropolis
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008, 01:29 AM
247 247 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,993
Default

1- I know, I was being facetious.
2- I never said it was slow, or that it wasn't competitive. Did I? I do think that they chose their fights carefully, and usually had a rider that was a notch (or two) above the competition. For example- at Daytona (Sound of Thunder) race in 1998 Michael Barnes was the rider. Second place went to a Moto Guzzi and theird went to a Buell. As for beating "factory" Ducatis at Daytona... I have no way of knowing how "factory" certain Ducatis were in those late '90s AHRMA Daytona races, but we can take a look at the names of the guys who were riding them: Wolfgang Bax, Larry Schnur, Guenther Weichert and Richard Harrington. My money would be on Barnes no matter how trick they may have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippersnapper View Post
1- Um, the Britten was liquid cooled. I don't know of too many 160hp air cooled twins

The Britten won the Daytona battle of the twins and the BEARs world championship amongst others. It certainly beat distributor backed superbike teams in the New Zealand Superbike championship.

2- Perhaps most impressively for those who seem to think it wasn't actually competitive is that it beat factory Ducatis in the Daytona win which were the fastest 4 stroke racers in the world at the time. It also set fastest trap speeds at the Isle of Mann. So probably not slow then? For a guy to build a totally radical innovative machine in his shed and then have it play with factory Dukes is pretty impressive.

I know when it flew by my Rob Muzzy kitted ZX-R750H2 in a straight line that it was a pretty fast machine. That is what you get with 166bhp and 138kg
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008, 02:17 AM
Jami6989's Avatar
Currently: Moderating
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 12,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsess View Post
Check out his projects and list of clients. He's easily worth at least high 7, low 8 figures.
He's probably worth alot less after building that hyper ego-machine! If ya got it, spend it!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn View Post
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
http://mrgrnsux.com/
Reply With Quote
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008, 06:25 PM
Run n hide's Avatar
Writer of Wrongs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 79
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whippersnapper View Post
Um, the Britten was liquid cooled. I don't know of too many 160hp air cooled twins
All these years I thought it was air cooled. My bad.
__________________
More fun than a clown car on fire!

'01 Duc 748/853
'03 Kaw ZX-7R
Reply With Quote
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008, 06:49 PM
sburns2421's Avatar
Panigaliscious
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SW MO
Posts: 8,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 247 View Post
The Britten was air-cooled? Shit.

I never knew that, which is embarrasing. I'm afraid I don't know shit about the Britten!
Depends on which Britten you are talking about. The aero-d-one was air-cooled.

Source:
Britten Motorcycle: The John Britten Story, by Felicity Price. pg 22.
__________________
1985 Honda VF1000R, 1990 Ducati 851, 2000.5 Aprilia Mille
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:21 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
2011, Speedzilla.com, Inc