COMMIEFORNIA extorts some cash from Power Commander

[1996900sp]

Originally Posted by rc51steverc51

All we can do is pray for that "BIG" one to hit and wait for that place to fall into the ocean.

I would rather put up with our CA troubles than have the Nazi cops like back east. I see more cops back there in one week than I do out here in 20 years. And wasn't it like VA or something with $1200 tickets?

[Latebraker]

The ****ed up thing is that Jesse James offered to make all the bikes he has manufactured emissions compliant, but all they wanted was the money.

Bunch of greedy bastards, anything to keep themselves in business and not do any good for anybody.

[XFBO]

I say yank their products from the state, who's really gonna buy their product after the mods are said and done?

Like someone else said it'll probably do nothing and cost more to boot.

[RockyMt]

Originally Posted by rc51steverc51

All we can do is pray for that "BIG" one to hit and wait for that place to fall into the ocean.

It's things like that that make Nationhood for the Golden State sound even more appealing......

-Rocky-

[nycstripes]

Originally Posted by gixracer

nyc
dynojet is in las vegas nevada, not even based out of the country of california.
they really went overboard to go out of state to get them

Now that's f-ed up.. I thought DynoJet was in CA. Even more of a mess, I guess DynoJet is licking their wounds for not putting the standard "race use only" disclaimer that accompanies most/all exhaust systems.
Ken

[gixracer]

what i dont get about dj is why they forked over the cash to carb. in california it is illegal for any dealer to install a power comander anyways
so how does that make them have to pay when they are illegal to install anyways wtf.
its just as bad as owning an black rifle and bringing it into california, they just throw you in the slammer and take your gun. messed up i say

[wdavis009]

Originally Posted by gixracer

what i dont get about dj is why they forked over the cash to carb. in california it is illegal for any dealer to install a power comander anyways

I suspect they forked over the cash because they knew they would lose. Whether you agree with the law or not, Dynojet knowlingly marketed and sold a product in California that they knew violated California emission requirements. As Monte stated in a thread on another board:

So.. these guys knowingly make a product that allows riders to tamper with and/or render ineffective the emsissions control equipment on road-going motorcycles and get nailed and that's CARB's fault?

Break laws... get caught...pay fines. isn't that the way it works?

The real issue here is the law, not CARB. If you don't like the law work to get the law changed. To complain about a government agency enforcing a law that it is mandated to enforce is a bit illogical. This is no different than if a manufacturer sold vehicles in California that were not compliant with that state's emission requirements and then complained when they were fined for doing so.

[pinky]

Originally Posted by wdavis009

The real issue here is the law, not CARB. If you don't like the law work to get the law changed. To complain about a government agency enforcing a law that it is mandated to enforce is a bit illogical. This is no different than if a manufacturer sold vehicles in California that were not compliant with that state's emission requirements and then complained when they were fined for doing so.

I agree about the issue with the law, however, like a previous poster stated about West Coast Choppers offering to rectify the offense by retro fitting all his previously sold machines (whether it's feasible or not). It would probably cost him as much if not more to do so but CARB would rather collect the money. In the mean time those machines are still polluting the air so what's the point. If he did have to fix the problem in addition to the fine and I just don't know about it then I apologize for this statement but till then !

[JeffKoch]

Originally Posted by rc51steverc51

All we can do is pray for that "BIG" one to hit and wait for that place to fall into the ocean.

Spoken like a true North Carolina redneck.

[gixracer]

if they get fined for making a product that can be put into use in california when does the rest of cals gov start suing gun makers for making 10+ roung clips that are not suposed to be in use in california?

doynojet did not break the law! the person who installed the product broke the law

i real dont think the person who is installing/using the product really is doing such harm anyways

yes carb is corrupt be cause they are out for cash only but it just sets precident for everything else that is illegal in california.

i feel sorry for my buddy who live in the LA area and works in a major shop/superstore. he has so many rules and regs plus the cal certification board. did you know they have to be certified and if they loose any claim against them they can not ever work as a tech in california.

plain and simple the country of california is a money hungry/ bad law creating POS

[El Gladiateur]

Dynojet is not located in California....So, Dynojet Boys: Don't pay this unrealist bill of 1000 000 dollars (Cocain and other "goodies" must be very expensiv over there for californian state-rorist...they need money, poor guys).
Californian guys that want Dynojet products should buy them in other states, via Web-market. Nevermind if dyno products are banned from californian market: Internet don't care about frontiers.
That kind of Carb, or other "equilibrium-1984-Big brother"-like organisation has not to learn you how to live, and of course has not to steal money, it has not to kill business done by honest workers. If you let them learn how to behave, if you let them tell you how to hold your cXck to piss.....that will be the end.
Dynojet staff: Don't pay, this is nothing but a racket. Go front of a FEDERAL justice court.

Global Warming is definitively the pretexte for all excess........We have exactly the same kind of issues in Europe, with the same kind of people: Liars, Stealers, Fxckers...

[wdavis009]

Originally Posted by gixracer

if they get fined for making a product that can be put into use in california when does the rest of cals gov start suing gun makers for making 10+ roung clips that are not suposed to be in use in california?

doynojet did not break the law! the person who installed the product broke the law

It's not whether you produce something that "can be put into use in california". The issue is that Dynojet specifically marketed a product in California and distributed it in California i.e., showed clear intent to sell it in California even though it knew (according to CARB) the product was not compliant with California law. This is why many companies clearly state on their packaging "Not for sale in California" -or- produce a California specific version of their product -or- specifically label the product "off-road" use only, "closed-track" use only, etc. Dynojet did none of these, even though the later two would have cost them pennies. It was a careless mistake, or just plain incompetence. I have a hard time having sympathy for incompetence. Moreover, the amount of the fine, and Dynojet's quick acceptance of the fine, indicates they were guilty of negligence, i.e., lack of reasonable care, and knew it. Sorry Paul, but your argument does not address the root of the issue: a law existed (good or bad) and a company purposely ignored the law, or was too incompetent to understand the law. In a society, and particularly, an economic system, based on the rule of law, it is silly to complain a law was enforced. I hate speed limits. But when I get a ticket I suck it up. I knew the law, purposely disobeyed the law, and therefore "I", and only I, am responsible for the consequences of disobeying that law which I fully understood and voluntarily ignored.

[XFBO]

Originally Posted by wdavis009

I suspect they forked over the cash because they knew they would lose. Whether you agree with the law or not, Dynojet knowlingly marketed and sold a product in California that they knew violated California emission requirements. As Monte stated in a thread on another board:



The real issue here is the law, not CARB. If you don't like the law work to get the law changed. To complain about a government agency enforcing a law that it is mandated to enforce is a bit illogical. This is no different than if a manufacturer sold vehicles in California that were not compliant with that state's emission requirements and then complained when they were fined for doing so.

That was a well thought out reply!

But I gotta ask, cuz I don't live there, is it also illegal to have an electronic unit that alters emissions anymore or less than an aftermarket exhaust on off-road/track/race bikes?

I think the answer is no????
If true, then answer me this, how is DJ supposed to know for what purpose/use each customer is utilizing their product for?

Unless they impose some kind of 'purchase documentation/licensing/registration' there really is no way to know, so if CARB must enforce their regulations then they should be going after the installers and/or owners.......but let's speak the truth here, that would be too much work for them and more importantly [to them], it'll be harder to collect that big $$$$$$ fines from smaller shops and broke ass owners.


What they did to DJ is wrong, unless there are other unknown facts, but from what's being discussed here, it appears as if CARB is only interested in collecting big fines.

And our government has gotten to the point that even if DJ is innocent they were probably too intimidated by the expense of fighting this charge in court than anything else.....and the government knows it!


Another analogy that comes to mind is catalytic converters, if they're removed from your muscle/sports car should the manufacturer of that exhaust company or even better the maker of the car be held responsible for it? That's essentially what they did to DJ and its BS!!!

And to think ppl all over the US still desire/dream of BIGGER government in one breath and then spew BS about us living in a police state in the next.


I FEEL for you Cali brothers n sisters, the government there is too restrictive and pathetic IMO. But I'd STILL consider moving there just cuz it IS one helluva beautiful countryside.......

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by XFBO

But I'd STILL consider moving there just cuz it IS one helluva beautiful countryside.......

It is a nice place to live, once you get used to all the stupid...

[wdavis009]

Originally Posted by Haywood

It is a nice place to live, once you get used to all the stupid...

I know exactly what mean...we just moved to Nashville.

[wdavis009]

Originally Posted by XFBO

That was a well thought out reply!

But I gotta ask, cuz I don't live there, is it also illegal to have an electronic unit that alters emissions anymore or less than an aftermarket exhaust on off-road/track/race bikes?

I think the answer is no????
If true, then answer me this, how is DJ supposed to know for what purpose/use each customer is utilizing their product for?

They don't. They just need to market it and clearly label it as for off-road use only, or sell a version that is compliant with California laws if they don't want to market it for off-road use only (just like after-market exhaust companies do). Because they did not do that, the end user and dealers can plead ignorance to it not being street legal. Hence, CARB will have a tougher time prosecuting dealers who installed units on street bikes as the manufactuere did not properly identify it as illegal for street use. As long as Dynojet properly marks the unit as illegal for street use, the responsibility then lies with the end user to properly use the product.

Originally Posted by XFBO

Unless they impose some kind of 'purchase documentation/licensing/registration' there really is no way to know, so if CARB must enforce their regulations then they should be going after the installers and/or owners.......but let's speak the truth here, that would be too much work for them and more importantly [to them], it'll be harder to collect that big $$$$$$ fines from smaller shops and broke ass owners.

They might go after dealers who installed the units also, but they'll have a tougher time winning since the manufacturer did not clearly identify the units as illegal for street use in California. That's why CARB went after Dynojet.

Originally Posted by XFBO

Another analogy that comes to mind is catalytic converters, if they're removed from your muscle/sports car should the manufacturer of that exhaust company or even better the maker of the car be held responsible for it? That's essentially what they did to DJ and its BS!!!

The analogy doesn't fit. The proper analogy would be a car manufacturer that knowingly sold cars without catalytic converters, i.e., knowingly violated the law (which is what Dynojet was accused of doing). And I doubt anyone would be up in arms if such car company were fined. It is no different.

It is illegal to remove catalytic converters in every state as far as I know, and any shop that is caught doing so can be fined and have their license revoked. However, the company that manufactured the car would not, and should not, be held responsible for what a repair shop did to a car that met all regulatory requirements at the time of sale, just as Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, etc. are not being held responsible for what Dynojet and their dealers/customers did to their bikes.

[heavyzee]

we have no inspection here in florida, so there for no real emissions laws...

If i lived closer i would park my F-350 V-10 out front of CARB and just run though 2 tanks of gas

[XFBO]

We'll have to agree to disagree, you seem stuck on the defense of pleading 'ignorance' on behalf of the dealers/installers/owners......there's no way a sticker/label is all they need for a defense.

BTW- My analogy IS really closer than yours. If you go buy a high performance exhaust system for your vette that bypasses the oem cats altogether you cant tell me that a warning/sticker/decal would be the difference between the installer/you OR the exhaust manufacturer from getting @ssraped by CARB. Like I said earlier IGNORANCE of the law doesnt exclude you from punishment when breaking the law....atleast in NJ it doesnt.

[1996900sp]

Originally Posted by heavyzee

we have no inspection here in florida, so there for no real emissions laws...

If i lived closer i would park my F-350 V-10 out front of CARB and just run though 2 tanks of gas

No Inspection in CA either. No one ever looks at your bike except maybe a cop if you get pulled over.