Which is what Burgess is intimating. rossi will find himself out of sorts once again when Michelin are able to provide a quality tire. I agree with Stoner, one bad season doesn't mean dump the supplier and as Burgess has made quite clear in another interview valentino made plenty of errors which were not tire related. In other words, valentino lost the title fair and square and the excuses need to stop. His comments imply that Stoner didn't beat him based on talent but on tires and engine configuration. Given the results of the other ducati riders I think that is a poor assessment.
Kind of sad to see him cracking like this. The end is nigh. It wa a good run val, go rallying I hear they don't run Michelins there.
What's really sad is Dorna threatening Bridgestone if they don't supply rossi.
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
almost as funny as Ducati threatening WSBK to leave if they can't get 200 more CC's LOL
Worlds apart. The equal of Ducati leaving WSC would be Honda leaving Moto GP. Check out the grids and you'll see who has supported the respective series over the years. rossi is big, no doubt but the series will survive and thrive without him. People will not suddenly stop being fans of a sporting event because the top draw retires. It didn't happen when Senna passed or when Schumacher, Foggy and Michael Jordan retired. I'm sure the leg humpers will host an all night vigil with best of rossi videos going all night but Moto GP will survive.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
Which is what Burgess is intimating. rossi will find himself out of sorts once again when Michelin are able to provide a quality tire. I agree with Stoner, one bad season doesn't mean dump the supplier and as Burgess has made quite clear in another interview valentino made plenty of errors which were not tire related. In other words, valentino lost the title fair and square and the excuses need to stop. His comments imply that Stoner didn't beat him based on talent but on tires and engine configuration. Given the results of the other ducati riders I think that is a poor assessment.
Kind of sad to see him cracking like this. The end is nigh. It wa a good run val, go rallying I hear they don't run Michelins there.
What's really sad is Dorna threatening Bridgestone if they don't supply rossi.
i really hope you truly don't believe that the ducati and the stones did not aid stoner in the title some? the stones were a better tire and the duke was the best machine on the grid, facts not opinion. stoner is great and hats off to him but things were not on a even playing filed and even if rossi made no mistakes he would not ahve been able to win the championship this year all things considered
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
Worlds apart. The equal of Ducati leaving WSC would be Honda leaving Moto GP. Check out the grids and you'll see who has supported the respective series over the years. rossi is big, no doubt but the series will survive and thrive without him. People will not suddenly stop being fans of a sporting event because the top draw retires. It didn't happen when Senna passed or when Schumacher, Foggy and Michael Jordan retired. I'm sure the leg humpers will host an all night vigil with best of rossi videos going all night but Moto GP will survive.
dood, honda left WSBK and it showed. the ducatis just ran around and around each other, boring and i stopped watching for three years, how is that good?
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
Which is what Burgess is intimating. rossi will find himself out of sorts once again when Michelin are able to provide a quality tire. I agree with Stoner, one bad season doesn't mean dump the supplier and as Burgess has made quite clear in another interview valentino made plenty of errors which were not tire related. In other words, valentino lost the title fair and square and the excuses need to stop. His comments imply that Stoner didn't beat him based on talent but on tires and engine configuration. Given the results of the other ducati riders I think that is a poor assessment.
Kind of sad to see him cracking like this. The end is nigh. It wa a good run val, go rallying I hear they don't run Michelins there.
What's really sad is Dorna threatening Bridgestone if they don't supply rossi.
it is funny how quickly you dismiss the 5 time champion and 2 time runner up as nothing while the great stoner comes in LOL the same was said last year when hicky stepped up and now he is nowhere while rossi on a slower, undertired, mistake riddled season still got second. I will venture you will see stoner behind rossi next year like hicky this year.
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
i really hope you truly don't believe that the ducati and the stones did not aid stoner in the title some? the stones were a better tire and the duke was the best machine on the grid, facts not opinion. stoner is great and hats off to him but things were not on a even playing filed and even if rossi made no mistakes he would not ahve been able to win the championship this year all things considered
Lets be objective and look at the standings and that tells the tale.
1. CASEY STONER DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM 347
2. vALENTINO rOSSI FIAT YAMAHA TEAM 241
3. DANI PEDROSA REPSOL HONDA TEAM 217
4. MARCO MELANDRI GRESINI HONDA 174
5. JOHN HOPKINS RIZLA SUZUKI MOTOGP 173
6. CHRIS VERMEULEN RIZLA SUZUKI MOTOGP 169
7. LORIS CAPIROSSI DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM 155
8. COLIN EDWARDS FIAT YAMAHA TEAM 121
9. NICKY HAYDEN REPSOL HONDA TEAM 119
10. ALEX BARROS PRAMAC D'ANTIN MOTOGP 106
One Ducati in the top 5, 2 in the top 10. Hardly dominant compared to Rossi's days where the top 5 and 10 were Honda dominated.
2002 saw a mix of 500 and 990 but there were 5 Honda's in the top 5, 4 Yamaha's and 1 Suzuki.
2003 - 4 Honda and 1 Ducati in the top 5 with the top 3 being Honda. Honda took top honours again with 5 in the top 10.
Now here is where it gets interesting.
2004 - 4 Honda and 1 Yamaha in the top 5. Yamaha being #1. Notice I said Yamaha not rossi, if we are going with the arguement that it's the machine not the man. That said, remember this was the year the leg humpers declared it was the man not the machine. If so then why isn't the same arguement being used here? No other Ducati's in the top 5 in 2007.
2005 mirrors 2004 with Honda dominating the top 10 and Yamaha in #1. Man or macine? Man or machine? Ducati - 6th and 9th.
2006. Honda dominates the top 10 again with Yamaha running 2nd place and Ducati 3rd. No other ducati's in the top 10 and one Yamaha 7th.
2007... man or machine, baby, man or machine. The stats support that it was the man, not the machine.
Casey Stoner beat rossi. Team Ducati beat Team Yamaha. Suck it up or it's going to be a long winter.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
dood, honda left WSBK and it showed. the ducatis just ran around and around each other, boring and i stopped watching for three years, how is that good?
rossi leaving will have the same effect?
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
it is funny how quickly you dismiss the 5 time champion and 2 time runner up as nothing while the great stoner comes in LOL the same was said last year when hicky stepped up and now he is nowhere while rossi on a slower, undertired, mistake riddled season still got second. I will venture you will see stoner behind rossi next year like hicky this year.
It's called sarcasm, look it up.
Stoner behind rossi next season? Oh so it is the bike then, not the man.
Sorry to burst your bubble, oh and there's no Easter Bunny either.
Now lets be clear on this I'm not "dismissing" rossi but it is telling when his mindset and arguments are in direct contrast to the winningest team manager in Moto GP. How do you address that?
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
You are neglecting one very important point.
The bikes have changed a lot.
With the switch from 500s to 990s, it became easier for a rider with B or B+ talent to win races... because the bikes were easier to ride in general.
With the switch from 990s to 800s the additional layer of electronics allow riders with even less experience and talent to win races if they have the right electronics and tires. Also- lower top speeds make for shorter braking distances making less passing possible in the braking zone.
The advantage that Rossi's talent provides him has been reduced every year since the 500s went away. Right now the keys for victory are HP, cornering speed (grip) and electronics.
Stoner's bike was right at the top in all categories.
I feel certain that Rossi, Hayden, Pedrosa, Melandri, Hopkins or Vermeulen ALL could have won the championship on Stoner's bike and tires.
You are neglecting one very important point.
The bikes have changed a lot.
With the switch from 500s to 990s, it became easier for a rider with B or B+ talent to win races... because the bikes were easier to ride in general.
With the switch from 990s to 800s the additional layer of electronics allow riders with even less experience and talent to win races if they have the right electronics and tires. Also- lower top speeds make for shorter braking distances making less passing possible in the braking zone.
The advantage that Rossi's talent provides him has been reduced every year since the 500s went away. Right now the keys for victory are HP, cornering speed (grip) and electronics.
Stoner's bike was right at the top in all categories.
I feel certain that Rossi, Hayden, Pedrosa, Melandri, Hopkins or Vermeulen ALL could have won the championship on Stoner's bike and tires.
Wow...
So Stoner is B level talent now... Jeebus, I'm surprised he got a contact extension.
So when Rossi was on the best bike on the grid for 3 years running it was?
See I'm willing to accept your arguement regarding "best bike on the grid" but that means that according to the stats rossi had a hell of an easy time while at Honda, certainly the best outgoing 500 and new gen 990 on the grid. This sort of takes the wind out of Rossi's legendary status when arguing that 3 titles were a forgone conclusion when any B rider could have won the title.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
Stoner behind rossi next season? Oh so it is the bike then, not the man.
Sorry to burst your bubble, oh and there's no Easter Bunny either.
Now lets be clear on this I'm not "dismissing" rossi but it is telling when his mindset and arguments are in direct contrast to the winningest team manager in Moto GP. How do you address that?
i do not know what goes through his mind. i also know rossi has RIDDEN to 5 titles and Burgess has not.
you can't compare them, they do different things very well
don't try to bait me pleez. i did not say stoner was no good on the contrary. i do think however the stones and the duke were miles ahead of other bikes
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
You are neglecting one very important point.
The bikes have changed a lot.
With the switch from 500s to 990s, it became easier for a rider with B or B+ talent to win races... because the bikes were easier to ride in general.
With the switch from 990s to 800s the additional layer of electronics allow riders with even less experience and talent to win races if they have the right electronics and tires. Also- lower top speeds make for shorter braking distances making less passing possible in the braking zone.
The advantage that Rossi's talent provides him has been reduced every year since the 500s went away. Right now the keys for victory are HP, cornering speed (grip) and electronics.
Stoner's bike was right at the top in all categories.
I feel certain that Rossi, Hayden, Pedrosa, Melandri, Hopkins or Vermeulen ALL could have won the championship on Stoner's bike and tires.
i could not agree more
pu stoner on the yamaha the first year and where would he have been?
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
So Stoner is B level talent now... Jeebus, I'm surprised he got a contact extension.
So when Rossi was on the best bike on the grid for 3 years running it was?
See I'm willing to accept your arguement regarding "best bike on the grid" but that means that according to the stats rossi had a hell of an easy time while at Honda, certainly the best outgoing 500 and new gen 990 on the grid. This sort of takes the wind out of Rossi's legendary status when arguing that 3 titles were a forgone conclusion when any B rider could have won the title.
no, not really. the fights were tighter in closer talent and the bikes were more evenly matched
biaggi, sete, and others are gone. the battels at the front have been the worse this year and last IMO and it looks to only be worse so the word i like here is "disparity"
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
i do not know what goes through his mind. i also know rossi has RIDDEN to 5 titles and Burgess has not.
you can't compare them, they do different things very well
don't try to bait me pleez. i did not say stoner was no good on the contrary. i do think however the stones and the duke were miles ahead of other bikes
Again this goes to the man v. machine v. team now. I'm not baiting you, I'm asking you. How do you explain when the team manager, the current Yamaha team manager with more titles than anyone who has developed winning talent to the top level completely disagrees with Rossi's assessment of the tire situation. He may not be a rider but his opinion carries as much weight as Rossi's, arguably more. When Rossi retires Burgess will still be around. Just as when Mick Doohan retired.
It's not baiting calling out a distinct contrast whenever the discussion of rossi v. whoever is world champion comes out is it?
You still haven't addressed the stats I've put up. Forget opinion, I don't expect to change yours but address the stats because they are as clear as they can be.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
Again this goes to the man v. machine v. team now. I'm not baiting you, I'm asking you. How do you explain when the team manager, the current Yamaha team manager with more titles than anyone who has developed winning talent to the top level completely disagrees with Rossi's assessment of the tire situation. He may not be a rider but his opinion carries as much weight as Rossi's, arguably more. When Rossi retires Burgess will still be around. Just as when Mick Doohan retired.
It's not baiting calling out a distinct contrast whenever the discussion of rossi v. whoever is world champion comes out is it?
You still haven't addressed the stats I've put up. Forget opinion, I don't expect to change yours but address the stats because they are as clear as they can be.
burgess will still be around, rightfully so. but Micky D won 5 and so has Rossi and it seems you think now burgess is 100% responsible, correct?
I am not 100% sure von the ins and outs of burgess's responsibilities so i can't comment on that, sorry.
I see the makers of the bikes and the riders as important and yes the team manager is important but they don't make, fix or ride the bikes so i find it hard to take what they say to serious as far as that.
like i say. rossi and burgess may have different angles onthe tire rule, just a thought.
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
F*** Rossi in his F***ing A**hole. Bridgestone should tell him the same. Not our fault his sponsor/factory left him swingin' for equipment that is competitive. Oh yeah, F*** Michelin too. Why the hell can't the frogs make a tire that doesn't commit suicide in the middle of a race? Rossi is still probably the most talented rider in recent history, but needs the house put back into order. Congrats to Ducati,Bridgestone, and Stoner for being a complete team.
dood, honda left WSBK and it showed. the ducatis just ran around and around each other, boring and i stopped watching for three years, how is that good?
Actually, in 2004 when WSBK was the 'Ducati Cup', the racing was quite good. If I remember correctly, the racing was extremely tight. McCoy, Haga, Toseland, Vermeulen, and Regis Laconi all won races. There were also good showings on the Petronas and Steve Martin ran well on the Sterilgarda Ducati.
Actually, in 2004 when WSBK was the 'Ducati Cup', the racing was quite good. If I remember correctly, the racing was extremely tight. McCoy, Haga, Toseland, Vermeulen, and Regis Laconi all won races. There were also good showings on the Petronas and Steve Martin ran well on the Sterilgarda Ducati.
That was a great season.
for ducati
was there even a factory yamaha, honda or kawi that year?
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
F*** Rossi in his F***ing A**hole. Bridgestone should tell him the same. Not our fault his sponsor/factory left him swingin' for equipment that is competitive. Oh yeah, F*** Michelin too. Why the hell can't the frogs make a tire that doesn't commit suicide in the middle of a race? Rossi is still probably the most talented rider in recent history, but needs the house put back into order. Congrats to Ducati,Bridgestone, and Stoner for being a complete team.
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
if we are going with the arguement that it's the machine not the man. That said, remember this was the year the leg humpers declared it was the man not the machine. If so then why isn't the same arguement being used here? No other Ducati's in the top 5 in 2007. 
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