You seem to have a very simplistic view of the world.
MotoGP is extremely complicated. It's not all man or all machine.
Do you dispute the fact that the Ducati was the best bike this year?
Do you dispute the fact that Bridgestone was the best tire this year?
Actually if you read all of my posts you'll see my point of view is far from simplistic.
The viewpoint you are espousing is simplistic. It's the bike,. it's the tires. It's not rossi.
Do I dispute the Ducati being the best bike? Yes the stats don't support it when you consider where other Ducati and other Bridgestone riders finished this season.
Do I consider Stoner and his Ducati team the best combination this season. Absolutely. The stats support that.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
Actually if you read all of my posts you'll see my point of view is far from simplistic.
The viewpoint you are espousing is simplistic. It's the bike,. it's the tires. It's not rossi.
Do I dispute the Ducati being the best bike? Yes the stats don't support it when you consider where other Ducati and other Bridgestone riders finished this season.
Do I consider Stoner and his Ducati team the best combination this season. Absolutely. The stats support that.
you can't be serious are you? you think the ducati was not the best bike out there?
you ever think that ALL of ducatis resources were going to stoner and not the other bikes?
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
you can't be serious are you? you think the ducati was not the best bike out there?
you ever think that ALL of ducatis resources were going to stoner and not the other bikes?
Yeah and rossi wasn't the #1 rider for Yamaha.
Keep in mind that Stoner didn't come into 2007 as the #1 rider. He earned it over the course of the season so he likely wasn't getting all of Ducati's resources from day one.
You ever going to address the stats I put up. I notice you keep avoiding the topic. In case you missed the post...
Quote:
Lets be objective and look at the standings and that tells the tale.
1. CASEY STONER DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM 347
2. vALENTINO rOSSI FIAT YAMAHA TEAM 241
3. DANI PEDROSA REPSOL HONDA TEAM 217
4. MARCO MELANDRI GRESINI HONDA 174
5. JOHN HOPKINS RIZLA SUZUKI MOTOGP 173
6. CHRIS VERMEULEN RIZLA SUZUKI MOTOGP 169
7. LORIS CAPIROSSI DUCATI MARLBORO TEAM 155
8. COLIN EDWARDS FIAT YAMAHA TEAM 121
9. NICKY HAYDEN REPSOL HONDA TEAM 119
10. ALEX BARROS PRAMAC D'ANTIN MOTOGP 106
One Ducati in the top 5, 2 in the top 10. Hardly dominant compared to Rossi's days where the top 5 and 10 were Honda dominated.
2002 saw a mix of 500 and 990 but there were 5 Honda's in the top 5, 4 Yamaha's and 1 Suzuki.
2003 - 4 Honda and 1 Ducati in the top 5 with the top 3 being Honda. Honda took top honours again with 5 in the top 10.
Now here is where it gets interesting.
2004 - 4 Honda and 1 Yamaha in the top 5. Yamaha being #1. Notice I said Yamaha not rossi, if we are going with the arguement that it's the machine not the man. That said, remember this was the year the leg humpers declared it was the man not the machine. If so then why isn't the same arguement being used here? No other Ducati's in the top 5 in 2007.
2005 mirrors 2004 with Honda dominating the top 10 and Yamaha in #1. Man or machine? Man or machine? Ducati - 6th and 9th.
2006. Honda dominates the top 10 again with Yamaha running 2nd place and Ducati 3rd. No other Ducati's in the top 10 and one Yamaha 7th.
2007... man or machine, baby, man or machine. The stats support that it was the man, not the machine.
Casey Stoner beat rossi. Team Ducati beat Team Yamaha. Suck it up or it's going to be a long winter.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
everyone of u leghumpers diminishes Casey's championship by saying Rossi would have won this year on 'stones. There is no proof that his package would've been able to produce a championship with different tires. Tires were not the only problem with the big 4 bikes.
everyone of u leghumpers diminishes Casey's championship by saying Rossi would have won this year on 'stones. There is no proof that his package would've been able to produce a championship with different tires. Tires were not the only problem with the big 4 bikes.
show me where anybody said rossi would have won on stones?
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
everyone of u leghumpers diminishes Casey's championship by saying Rossi would have won this year on 'stones. There is no proof that his package would've been able to produce a championship with different tires. Tires were not the only problem with the big 4 bikes.
Rossi would have had a good chance if he was on stones on a Ducati!!
So.......... Barros,Hoffman, and Capirossi are all trash? They were all on Ducs shod with 'stones. Rossi is fading, just deal with it. He's still extremely talented, and may win another championship, just quit making excuses and acknowledge Ducati and Stoner had a great season THIS YEAR. Maybe next year Yami will put some effort into Rossi's bike and make it competitive for the title again.
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
So.......... Barros,Hoffman, and Capirossi are all trash? They were all on Ducs shod with 'stones. Rossi is fading, just deal with it. He's still extremely talented, and may win another championship, just quit making excuses and acknowledge Ducati and Stoner had a great season THIS YEAR. Maybe next year Yami will put some effort into Rossi's bike and make it competitive for the title again.
who has not given the ducati, stones and stoner the credit they are due?
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
Absolutely, positively, the SCARIEST thought for me right now is that I agree with ......MRGRN on this thread. What the f#ck is the world coming to?
For me, it's really quite simple here.....
Best Tire = Bridgestone
Best Bike = Ducati
Best Rider = Rossi
Best package this year, by FAR - Stoner + Ducati + Bridgestone, of course!
Do I think Rossi on Ducati on Bridgestones would have beaten my young hero Casey, man for man? Yes.
Simple as that. My opinion. If anyone thinks I'm a Rossi "leg humper" for thinking he remains the best rider......that's your issue, bud!!!
PS. I rooted for Casey this year (despite KNOWING that Rossi is the best rider) because, well....I like Ducati...and I think Casey was phenomenal this year, and totally blew me away with his maturity and growth from his "Crashes Anonymous" status last year. He was incredible.
__________________ Old Baldy / WWBO #451
Ducati 996
Kawasaki KLR 650 '02
Kawasaki KLR650 '06 OB's Blog
Again, best overall package= rider,bike,tires. What works for one rider doesn't neccessarily work for another. I do not disagree that Rossi is phenominal. I'm just tired of armchair racers saying Rossi would clean up the field on 'stones. Or on a Ducati for that matter. If he wanted to be on a Duc do you honestly think he couldn't have made it happen? Do you think just becasue he is "Rossi" he could have won on previous Ducs? All the elements came together this year- and Casey came out on top. I don't care if Rossi gets 'stones next year, if his bike is subpar he still loses.
Again, best overall package= rider,bike,tires. What works for one rider doesn't neccessarily work for another. I do not disagree that Rossi is phenominal. I'm just tired of armchair racers saying Rossi would clean up the field on 'stones. Or on a Ducati for that matter. If he wanted to be on a Duc do you honestly think he couldn't have made it happen? Do you think just becasue he is "Rossi" he could have won on previous Ducs? All the elements came together this year- and Casey came out on top. I don't care if Rossi gets 'stones next year, if his bike is subpar he still loses.
So is anyone disagreeing with you? Sounds like we're saying the same thing....except we're ALL armchair racers here. Whether that opinion is "for" Rossi or "against" Rossi - not a single one of us has an expert opinion at this motogp level to call any of our opinion's as fact. Whether Rossi was able to break his Yahama contract or not...has nothign to do with the reality of the situation that transpired this year....Ducati came up phenomenally, as did Bridgestone this year and so did Casey - and the Casey+Ducati+Bridgestone package was unbeatable - even by Rossi. Not even close. Does that make Rossi a "has been?" Not on your life!
__________________ Old Baldy / WWBO #451
Ducati 996
Kawasaki KLR 650 '02
Kawasaki KLR650 '06 OB's Blog
no what I'm getting at is the LH's on Rossi's bandwagon keep claiming if he was on 'stones this year he would be champ. I for one don't see it that way. He had other issues besides tires. Lo power, reliability, off track distractions(tax thing), etc.... Every excuse made for Rossi diminishes the accomplishments of Ducati and Stoner IMO
Personally, I don;t think ANYTHING any one of us says about Rossi's situation can have any affect on the truth of the matter - which was that Casey+Ducati+Bridgestone was unbeatable this year, and fully deserved their victories.
I get pissed at those that might presume that Rossi is now "past it" simply because Casey dominated this year....I call THAT absolute BS.
Furthermore, I would live nothing better than to see Rossi and Casey on the Ducati+Bridgestones together....can you imagine what a dominating team THAT would be?
.......unless Honda and Michelin came up with something incredible and Nicky was again our man!
__________________ Old Baldy / WWBO #451
Ducati 996
Kawasaki KLR 650 '02
Kawasaki KLR650 '06 OB's Blog
I think there are a few things to be considered.
1. With the shift to 800cc the electronics have taken over more control of the bike, this has decreased Rossi's riding ability advantage.
2. Power to Weight is even more important, I think Rossi weighs 15kg more than both Stoner and Pedrosa, another disadvantage for Rossi.
3. Casey Stoner is extremely talented. He showed his abilities at the start of last season and then seemed to lose his way, losing the front end on numerous occasions. Stoner has hinted that he was unable to get a front tyre that worked for him. Conspiracy theory maybe, but could Rossi have pulled the strings with Michelin to deny this cocky upstart the best available rubber?
4. Check out Stoner's background, theres a great doco that played during coverage of the Oz GP called "From 27 to 1" , you can d/l the torrent at RacingUnderground.com. He has always been very fast, he has sort of snuck up on the radar mainly because he hasn't stuck around in classes to win a world title.
5. Stoner isn't the next Rossi, I see him more as the next Mick Doohan, he seems to have this ruthless "fastest in all sessions" attitude about him, and if you watch the practice sessions you can see he absolutely rides the wheels off the bike, and clearly gives good feedback to his team.
6. Rossi was against moving to Ducati as he felt the bike would get too much credit and it was all about the bike. Seems he may have been right.
7. So why can't Michelin build a Bridgestone spec tire?
8. Rossi vs Stoner on the same bike/tyre combo, why is it against the realms of possibility that Stoner may have the edge?
FWIW- I would guess that if Rossi and Stoner had the same tires this year we would be looking forward to a hell of a battle at Valencia to decide it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DucatiDom
no what I'm getting at is the LH's on Rossi's bandwagon keep claiming if he was on 'stones this year he would be champ. I for one don't see it that way. He had other issues besides tires. Lo power, reliability, off track distractions(tax thing), etc.... Every excuse made for Rossi diminishes the accomplishments of Ducati and Stoner IMO
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