New 2009 Hondas...

[resuscit8u]

Originally Posted by AZ Scott

Isn't that what Honda is famous for? Waiting to see what everyone else comes up with, see what sells, and then rip it off? They do it time and time again. When was the last time Honda came up with an original idea?

Everything they ever do, they either steal or buy from the original inventor. Phuck Honda.

Bullshit.


Inline 4 cylinder engine- 1959 Honda RC160
Undertail exhaust- 1992 Honda NR750
Slipper Clutch- 1981 Invented by Honda and OEM parts on every Longitudinal V4 they ever made.
Turn Signals in the mirrors- 1992 Honda NR750
Shower Head Secondary Injectors- Honda CBR
Electronic Steering Damping- Honda CBR
Anti-Squat style Swingarm and Link- Honda Pro-Link circa 1980 ish
DOHC 4 Valve head- Honda CB750F 1979
Gear Driven Cams- 1981 Honda FWS1000

Stolen- I ****ing think not.

[GAMBLER]

http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=474

Strange Case of the Missing Honda CBR1000RR

First you see Big Red’s all-new 2008 repli-racer, then you don’t...

By David Edwards
September 2007

Honda may be the world’s biggest bike-maker but it seems they have a little to learn about the Internet. When the company’s 2008 models were loaded onto American Honda’s media website last week, Big Red’s big news—the long-rumored, totally redone, Gixxer-hunting CBR1000RR—was not intended to be among them. That unveil was supposed to be at the Paris Show on September 28.

But, oooopppps!!!, there they were, three side-profile shots of the new CBR, big as day. The unintended images were taken down within a couple of hours, but being good newshounds, of course, we took that gift from the Web Gods and ran with it, posting the pictures on www.cycleworld.com. There was no additional info about the bike, but it was clear it had been made more compact (390 pounds claimed web scuttlebutt, propelled by 175 hp from the inline four-banger). Also visible was the underslung “midships” exhaust and tiny MotoGP-style tailsection. Not on display but heavily rumored: Advanced electronics, maybe even traction control.

As you can imagine, American Honda, in full damage-control mode, was not impressed with our news-gathering capabilities. Claiming a murky “unauthorized use” clause, they wanted the photos yanked.
We pointed out that once the Internet cat was out of the bag, it was impossible to put back in, that we weren’t the only ones who had accessed the rogue photos, that Google knows no national borders, that the World Wide Web is just that, world-wide. Our friends at England’s Motor Cycle News, for instance, had the CBR shots online, as did Raptors and Rockets, not to mention numerous Internet bulletin boards and forums, including CW’s.

Still, we are nothing if not good corporate citizens here at Cycle World, so down the home-page images come. We invite you to join the discussion about the new CBR1000RR on our forums.

[247]

To put it kindly, you've overstated your case.

Here are some clues for you, in random order.

Gilera 500cc inline 4 GP bike had DOHC in 1950, auto racing negines had DOHC as early as 1920
RC30/45 do not have slipper clutches as far as I know
Shower head (I believe) was pioneered by Ducati
Gear driven cams were used by untold numbers of bike engines well before 1981. Ever heard of a 70s bevel drive Ducati? How about a 50s Norton Manx? Maybe you've heard of the 60s MV GP bikes?

Anyway- no harm in defending your favorite make!

Originally Posted by resuscit8u

Bullshit.


Inline 4 cylinder engine- 1959 Honda RC160
Slipper Clutch- 1981 Invented by Honda and OEM parts on every Longitudinal V4 they ever made.
Shower Head Secondary Injectors- Honda CBR
DOHC 4 Valve head- Honda CB750F 1979
Gear Driven Cams- 1981 Honda FWS1000

Stolen- I ****ing think not.

[Suburbanrancher]

Originally Posted by suburbanrancher

Hey, here's a Honda dream machine - How about a supersports bike with a slipper clutch ? You know, brake-slip-slip-accelerate, brake-slip-slip-accelerate. I hear a couple of other manufacturers have been dabbling with them a little bit.

Originally Posted by resuscit8u

Honda invented the slipper clutch, and put them in every V4 bike they ever made except the ST.

That said, the new 1000RR has a slipper.

Okay, reality check:

Supersports bike = widely available, used in racing, reasonable cost, like what you could buy at a local dealer who has five or ten in stock...like oh, say, a CBR.

V4 Honda = Supersports bike? Um...RC30 (no), RC45 (um, no again), oh, I know: VFR? (Um...I owned two, they were both v4 Hondas that didn't have slipper clutches, and no for three)



I own Hondas and I ride Hondas as well. Honda needs a slipper clutch in their widely marketed SUPERSPORTS bikes - simple as that.

Who knows about the new 1000rr; according to American Honda, it doesn't even exist yet,

So much for the history lesson.

[simonkobe]

the new cbr1000 looks like this orc crossed with a porpoise

[PSk]

Originally Posted by resuscit8u

Bullshit.

DOHC 4 Valve head- Honda CB750F 1979
Gear Driven Cams- 1981 Honda FWS1000

Stolen- I ****ing think not.

I don't know about the rest but the above 2 are complete bullshit. I am sure we can go right back to the early 20's if not earlier for a 4 valve head driven by 2 over head cams, but even if we cannot be bothered we simply have to go back to 1967 to the Cosworth DFV F1 V8 engine that completely changed engine design right then (and basically has been copied/refined every since, even in F1).

Oh and that engine also had gear driven cams, as also did the 8c Alfa Romeo engine of the early 30's, and many before.
Pete

[hubert]

Wow, if that really is the new 1000RR, it got hit with every branch of the ugly tree. Yowzers.

[resuscit8u]

Originally Posted by 247

To put it kindly, you've overstated your case.

Here are some clues for you, in random order.

Gilera 500cc inline 4 GP bike had DOHC in 1950, auto racing negines had DOHC as early as 1920
RC30/45 do not have slipper clutches as far as I know
Shower head (I believe) was pioneered by Ducati
Gear driven cams were used by untold numbers of bike engines well before 1981. Ever heard of a 70s bevel drive Ducati? How about a 50s Norton Manx? Maybe you've heard of the 60s MV GP bikes?

Anyway- no harm in defending your favorite make!

The Gilera was still a 2 valve. We are talking bikes, not cars as well.
RC30 and RC45 had factory Slippers. (Honda called them the Anti Back Torque Limiting clutch. The design has since been perfected, but they did have them, even the Sabre and Magna had them. You could drop 3 gears at redline and still be ok)
Shower Head SECONDARY injectors, meaning a second set of injectors

[resuscit8u]

Originally Posted by PSk

I don't know about the rest but the above 2 are complete bullshit. I am sure we can go right back to the early 20's if not earlier for a 4 valve head driven by 2 over head cams, but even if we cannot be bothered we simply have to go back to 1967 to the Cosworth DFV F1 V8 engine that completely changed engine design right then (and basically has been copied/refined every since, even in F1).

Oh and that engine also had gear driven cams, as also did the 8c Alfa Romeo engine of the early 30's, and many before.
Pete

Bikes, not cars.

[resuscit8u]

Originally Posted by Suburbanrancher

Okay, reality check:

Supersports bike = widely available, used in racing, reasonable cost, like what you could buy at a local dealer who has five or ten in stock...like oh, say, a CBR.

V4 Honda = Supersports bike? Um...RC30 (no), RC45 (um, no again), oh, I know: VFR? (Um...I owned two, they were both v4 Hondas that didn't have slipper clutches, and no for three)



I own Hondas and I ride Hondas as well. Honda needs a slipper clutch in their widely marketed SUPERSPORTS bikes - simple as that.

Who knows about the new 1000rr; according to American Honda, it doesn't even exist yet,

So much for the history lesson.

Try again Sparky, the VFRs have ALWAYS had Honda's Anti Back Torque limiting clutch. The design has since been perfected, however, Honda invented it and they bikes did have them.

The 07 600RR does wonderfully with the IACV instead of a Slipper too. (their MotoGP bikes do not even use Slipper clutches anymore, they use IACV too)

[resuscit8u]

And furthermore, Bevel Drive Ducati's are about as far from "Gear Driven Cams" as you could get.

[247]

Really? How are the cams driven?

[247]

To recap.

Inline 4 cylinder engine- 1959 Honda RC160. Gilera 1950.
Undertail exhaust- 1992 Honda NR750. Yamaha OW 61 had this in 1982.
DOHC 4 Valve head- Honda CB750F 1979- Kawasaki Z1 had this in '79
Gear Driven Cams- 1981 Honda FWS1000- MV had this in the early 60s.

[trussdude]

Originally Posted by resuscit8u

RC30 and RC45 had factory Slippers.

Hmmmm......................my bikes must be broken.

[Busy Little Shop]

Originally Posted by 247

To put it kindly, you've overstated your case.
RC30/45 do not have slipper clutches as far as I know

Honda discovered that the 360º crank V4 had so much engine breaking
that a slipper clutch was necessary... when Honda rephased the crank
180º the V4 did not produce the same engine breaking problem so no
slipper clutch was needed...

1983 to 1985 V4 Interceptors (360º) sport slipper clutches...

1986 to 2008 VFR (180º) no slipper clutches...

Both the 1990 RC30 and 1994 RC45 (360º) sport slipper clutches...

In short if your V4 is a 360º crank you need a slipper clutch to check wheel
hop... if your V4 is a 180º crank no slipper is needed because there's no
wheel hop...

[AZ Scott]

Originally Posted by resuscit8u

Bikes, not cars.

I never said Honda steals only from other bike companies. They steal ideas from car companies, too. (Of course, sometimes they buy the ideas. They don't always steal them.)

And if anyone actually thinks there's a Ducati on the road that even remotely resembles that fat, bloated NR750, they need to have their eyes checked...

[aces anugal]

Fat and bloated? How 'bout the 1964 Ducati Apollo V4? Thank god Honda didn't copy THAT one.

[aces anugal]

The Ducati Indiana was a gem as well....

[Suburbanrancher]

Originally Posted by resuscit8u

Try again Sparky, the VFRs have ALWAYS had Honda's Anti Back Torque limiting clutch.

Okay, here's the deal; when trying to prove a point during a discussion, know what the hell you are talking about.

For example, here's page 9-4 of the 1990-1996 VFR service manual:



Please point out for me the "back-torque limiting" or "slipper clutch" components you babble of. See, I've owned two VFRs, done considerable mechanical work with both of them, and I know FROM EXPERIENCE that neither of them had what you speak of.

I suspect that somewhere along the line you were completely misinformed about this and then decided to just run with it because Honda's are the best and they invented everything, so how could you be wrong?

[AZ Scott]

Originally Posted by aces anugal

Fat and bloated? How 'bout the 1964 Ducati Apollo V4? Thank god Honda didn't copy THAT one.

This bike? With a V4? The V4 that Honda invented 20 years later?

Funny, it looks pretty trim to me for that period...