Counter Rotating Brakes Vid

[Just Riding Along]

A lot of riders talk about pushing with their feet to steer, but they're just changing the way put the input into the bars. When you say "you can't steer with your feet" they challenge you to a no-hands ride, and lo and behold they can ride no hands, but all they're just torquing the bars with body position. When they're forced to hold onto the sub bars (brake throttle clutch the works, you get it up to speed and then swap) they can't resort to the old habits, and hopefully realize that you steer with the bars.

Originally Posted by jager

Actually to clarify, IMO Keith Code never said that "trying to steer the bike with your body [peg pressure] simply does not work." My interperation of what he said was that you could steer a bike using your body [peg pressure] alone, but it is not a reliable, accurate, or consistant means of steering a motorycle at a street/race track pace. This was proved by riding both the no bs machine and the same type of motorcycle without the no bs setup. Countersteering proved to be a much better way to steer the bike. Of course its not black and white, its like front and rear brakes you should really use both technics together to really turn a motorcycle and get the best results.

[944Monster]

Originally Posted by Just Riding Along

We're going to presume a moving vehicle, so it has momentum, and the wheels are turning. Since it would be impossible to create a massless wheel and we're moving (velocity) we will never reach the theoretical wheel that is “too light”. Every particle in the wheel has angular momentum. When you try to change that momentum there is a reaction. This is the talk about gyroscopic reaction and precession start rearing up.




.

Just riding along I'm only quoting you as an example,I needed your above statement...

About three pages ago sombody made the comment that it's not the weight of the wheel it's the % of the wheel weight to the total weight of the bike.

So what would happen if we put a set of BST carbons on a bike that weighed in at 1000 lbs?(besides crushing the poor wheels).
It would still turn,I'm sure,but be very quick to roll off center.

I also posted above about riding in a very high cross wind and to maintain striaght forward motoin I had to steer,ie turn,the wheel into the wind and lean.Without the force of the wind this will result in a very sudden change in roll position.It would stand the bike up and roll it to the other extreme.

Whether we realize it or not every one of use who rides countersteers to start the roll and lean then aplies opposite counter steering to hold that angle then countersteers to straiten up and continue to the next turn .The veriable is in how fast we do this.Useing Codes No BS bike as an example without steering the bike with our hands the bike still turns because while the rider moves his body about trying to lean it the fork rocks ever so slightly causing a counter steer,this force could even be appied from the road through the tire,but it happens the bike finely turns.The problem in riding the NoBS bike was not starting the turn but coming out of it,riders who dared had to have almost stand up to get the required leverage to pull the bike up and over the high side to the next turn.

So now we put or new BST's on that old American Eagle,or even a Boss Hoss not 1000lbs but in the 800's I'm sure.What will happen?
The wheels weigh in at about 12-18lbs for the pair(somebody may want real numbers with tires and brakes,but I'm going to go with 20lbs total up front and 30lbs out back) so 50 lbs total of wheels is about 6% of the bikes total weight thats low. The bike will turn but the challenge would be in catching the roll rate before the bike ,floor board,frame,valve cover hits the road.If you did picking it up,with counter steering would be easy except you would need to catch it at the top to keep from going too far then correct again until you steered it back straight.

A light wheel allows the roll to be started easier so one may feel the bike is unstable,the truth is the stability is the same,the built in geometry of the bike takes care of that,it's the required force that starts the roll that changes,so the bike feels twitchy,put that iron wheel back on and the force would go way up but with enough force it would still turn,like a truck.

Gyro force has nothing to do with turning except for how much force is required to start the lean and stop it.

Flame suit on!

[PSk]

Originally Posted by 944Monster

Gyro force has nothing to do with turning except for how much force is required to start the lean and stop it.

I agree.

Pete

[GAMBLER]

Motorcycle Equipped With Counter-rotating Front Brake Rotors Track Tested In Florida


Apr 16, 2006

From a Press Release

REVERSE ROTATING ROTORS PROTOTYPE TRACK TESTED

Fort Myers, Florida – Inventor Robby Kasten track tested his Reverse Rotating Rotors invention on Monday, April 10th at the Jennings GP race facility in North Florida. The purpose of the test was two-fold. First, to prove that it was mechanically sound at track pace, and secondly, to verify that it improved performance as claimed. It was a resounding yes on both counts.

The test was the first time that the prototype has been pushed to that extreme, and the system handled it without a complaint. With speeds in excess of 135mph, the real story is in how the motorcycle felt. The bike transitioned with a fraction of the effort of the stock front wheel. Coming off of the high-speed back straight at Jennings GP is a test of nerves and physical strength. With Reverse Rotating Rotors it is no longer a test of strength, only nerve.

"It was an amazing day," said Kasten. "The prototype seems to be bulletproof, and it improved the performance of the bike as predicted."

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=25479

[Just Riding Along]

When he combines it with a carbon rim I know some folks that'll be in for a group buy.

Originally Posted by GAMBLER

Motorcycle Equipped With Counter-rotating Front Brake Rotors Track Tested In Florida



Apr 16, 2006

From a Press Release

REVERSE ROTATING ROTORS PROTOTYPE TRACK TESTED

Fort Myers, Florida – Inventor Robby Kasten track tested his Reverse Rotating Rotors invention on Monday, April 10th at the Jennings GP race facility in North Florida. The purpose of the test was two-fold. First, to prove that it was mechanically sound at track pace, and secondly, to verify that it improved performance as claimed. It was a resounding yes on both counts.

The test was the first time that the prototype has been pushed to that extreme, and the system handled it without a complaint. With speeds in excess of 135mph, the real story is in how the motorcycle felt. The bike transitioned with a fraction of the effort of the stock front wheel. Coming off of the high-speed back straight at Jennings GP is a test of nerves and physical strength. With Reverse Rotating Rotors it is no longer a test of strength, only nerve.

"It was an amazing day," said Kasten. "The prototype seems to be bulletproof, and it improved the performance of the bike as predicted."

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=25479

[944Monster]

Originally Posted by banda

There's a bunch of other stuff about motorcycle dynamics I'm sure you gyro heads don't know - Did you know that the front wheel of a motorcycle is constantly "weaving" even when you are traveling in a straight line? It does. It tracks to the right and to the left of the wheel in an oscillation, all the time. Its the caster of the front wheel, the trail, that pushes the wheel just a little bit past being back in line, so it weaves from side to side. Explain that with your gyroscopic forces and angular momentum.

I knew that.

When a motorcycle is traveling around a corner, the front wheel tracks outside of the rear wheel... the rear wheel turns in a tighter arc. In fact, the front wheel is pointed to the inside of the turn ever so slightly, the wheels are NOT in line when traveling around a corner. Explain that with your angular momentum and your gyroscopes.

Not always,only if the tires are the same width,a wider rear tracks outside the front track,or maybe closer too the same track.
Assumeing NO SLIP!
Quit making yourself look silly.

TOO LATE for me.

[PSk]

Originally Posted by GAMBLER

Motorcycle Equipped With Counter-rotating Front Brake Rotors Track Tested In Florida


Apr 16, 2006

From a Press Release

REVERSE ROTATING ROTORS PROTOTYPE TRACK TESTED

Fort Myers, Florida – Inventor Robby Kasten track tested his Reverse Rotating Rotors invention on Monday, April 10th at the Jennings GP race facility in North Florida. The purpose of the test was two-fold. First, to prove that it was mechanically sound at track pace, and secondly, to verify that it improved performance as claimed. It was a resounding yes on both counts.

The test was the first time that the prototype has been pushed to that extreme, and the system handled it without a complaint. With speeds in excess of 135mph, the real story is in how the motorcycle felt. The bike transitioned with a fraction of the effort of the stock front wheel. Coming off of the high-speed back straight at Jennings GP is a test of nerves and physical strength. With Reverse Rotating Rotors it is no longer a test of strength, only nerve.

"It was an amazing day," said Kasten. "The prototype seems to be bulletproof, and it improved the performance of the bike as predicted."

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=25479

I think this proves:

Originally Posted by myself

... that it is not the gyroscopic force ALONE that initiates a turn, otherwise they would have noticed that the bike was harder to corner/settle into a corner/turn in, etc.

Now Harley owners should get such a system and hang huge weights off it to purposely unbalance this gyro ... at certain speeds this new vibration might balance out the other purposely unbalanced device on the bike, the engine.

Pete

[PSk]

And this program proved to me that gyroscopic precession has little if not nothing to do with cornering of a motorcycle.

The program discussed the invention of the wheel and she had a wheel hanging by a string tied to one end of the axle only. She then demonstrated that no matter where you angled the wheel and started spinning it, it would stay at that angle ... no gyroscopic precession.

What was happening was that centrifugal forces where working to keep the wheel rotating in the same plane. Thus the mass of the wheel, as discussed in this thread, works against leaning a motorcycle and gyroscopic precession does NOT pull the wheel horizontal.

I thus would like somebody to explain to me how and why gyroscopic precession exists?, because if you can spin a wheel hanging from a piece of string surely it should (based on the gyroscopic precession) theory immediated flattened, but it didn't. There was no precision in these experiements at all on this TV program and the wheel did wobble around a bit ... thus the axle was tilted.

Interesting, but I'm now very clear that gyroscopic precession should no longer be discussed in regards to the cornering of a motorcycle.
Pete