Mugello MotoGP Spoiler!!!! - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-17-2016, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Mugello MotoGP Spoiler!!!!

I think this Sunday's race at Mugello will be an interesting battle between Jorge and Valentino. Earlier on during his Premier Class career, I recall Rossi owning the place by winning something like six or seven races in a row at his home track. Jorge, on the other hand, has won something like four or five of the last seven races there and hasn't finished any lower than second place since 2009. Marquez has managed to finish the race only one time back in 2014 when he beat Lorenzo by a few inches. With the Honda's major speed and acceleration handicaps, neither Marquez or Pedrosa have any real chance to contend for the front unless there is some attrition, otherwise I would put the factory Ducatis and possibly even the Suzukis as having better odds in Italy this weekend.

Iannone is now done at Ducati so I bet he'll be out to prove a point this Sunday. He did finish in second place last year so I believe the principal battle for the podium will be between the Factory Yamahas and Ducatis.

Marquez will be lucky to finish in the top 5 and I think Pedrosa has a better chance of finishing ahead of his teammate here.


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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-20-2016, 04:05 PM
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I'm thinking Jorge for the win. Consistency, will prove to carry him forward in the momentum. look for Iannone to be out to rub it in Ducati's face, so a podium for sure. A Suzuki on the box is almost for sure, also. Honda again screwed the pooch. The shortcomings of the lump they call a motor is almost embarrassing. How such a powerful company, with the resources it posses, can get it so wrong is unfathomable. They knew they were off last season, and it seems they learned nothing from it. Marquez must be grinding his teeth at night about now...

and Rossi will fall off...
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-20-2016, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking Jorge for the win. Consistency, will prove to carry him forward in the momentum. look for Iannone to be out to rub it in Ducati's face, so a podium for sure. A Suzuki on the box is almost for sure, also. Honda again screwed the pooch. The shortcomings of the lump they call a motor is almost embarrassing. How such a powerful company, with the resources it posses, can get it so wrong is unfathomable. They knew they were off last season, and it seems they learned nothing from it. Marquez must be grinding his teeth at night about now...

and Rossi will fall off...
I think the battle will be between Lorenzo, Iannone and Rossi for the top three podium spots. Lorenzo and his M1 have been such a dominant force here since 2009, Iannone is showing great speed already (he qualified on Pole and took 2nd last year) and Rossi, who used to own Mugello, is arguably riding better than ever and the M1 is so ideally suited to the track.

I, too, am bummed that HRC have not been able to pull their collective heads out of their asses and have provided Marquez and Pedrosa with such inferior equipment.

Although it'll never happen, part of would like to see MM defect to another factory although there don't appear to be any factory rides available outside of HRC unless he were somehow able to secure a Satellite team with full factory support. I can easily picture Rossi's head exploding "Scanners" style if he got his hands on a factory Yamaha for 2017. Could you just imagine the furious upheaval from Rossi were such a thing to happen? Hell, I sincerely believe he'd quite possibly be leading the Championship if he was riding the Suzuki this season and would love him to see him on any of the three better factory bikes (Ducati, Yamaha or Suzuki) rather than the Honda.


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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 03:31 PM
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I've got Rossi for pole.
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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I've got Rossi for pole.
Kreskin!! (or a sneak peek? )


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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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I believe tomorrow's race has the potential to be one of the most exciting contests we've seen for a while. While Marquez was able to run better than expected in FP3, the Honda's performance and set-up goes pear shaped when the air and track temperatures elevate. Interestingly, Jorge is also affected by this as was the case in Jerez as opposed to Rossi for whom the hotter the weather, the faster he goes (which was also the case in Jerez!) I don't know whether it is more a function of his set-up, riding style or both but the weather forecast for tomorrow's race is essentially the same as it was for today's FP4 and Q2 when Rossi was clearly the top dog. If Lorenzo and Marquez are able to make the correct set-up adjustments, we might be seeing an intense five-way battle between Rossi, Lorenzo, Iannone, Marquez and Vinales.

Jorge has been acting a little moody and Rossi is really riding high with his extremely impressive performance so far this weekend so he has to be considered the favorite for tomorrow (although I had a vision of Iannone taking him out trying to pass him on the inside of turn one like he did to Dovi a few races back).

I also just read that the past 8 races in a row have been won by the pole position holder.

Everyone knows I'm a diehard Marquez fan but it'll be hard to root against Rossi tomorrow due to the historic implications and the extraordinary highlight it would add to his amazing career.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 08:30 PM
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Ouch!!!

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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While it was an exciting race, it could have been way much more so if Rossi's bike hadn't crapped out and if Iannone and Vinales hadn't screwed the pooch at the start. Marquez rode the wheels off the Honda and would have won (or at least finished ahead of Jorge) if his bike wasn't so pitifully lacking in drive/acceleration off corners...


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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 10:38 PM
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Just starting to watch the race now and have been able to avoid all the press releases on the results. I won't bother picking a winner but I will say kudos to rossi, poll @ home. JLo I assume errors in final qualifying for his poor poll results, I'll have to watch qualifying for once.

Best chance for rossi imo to get a win unless a rain race later this season; this will be a mental advantage going forward whoever wins between the 3 front runners.

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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 11:03 PM
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OTOH I'm sorry for rossi. He (TBF - they all) deserve to lose on track. Except CalC... CalC deserves to be off track, he seems happy there. I don't think rossi would have won. JLO looked imperious given his start, the number of attempts rossi made that failed, and MM's pace.

OTOH I may have to start watching MGP on mute since that commentator was practically leghumping rossi while broadcasting. Yes I know rossi is MGP & they are in Italy but it was like he was ready to put down his mike and go home. No one died dude, even though he used the word ''demise'' to describe rossi.

I wonder why the Yamaha has suddenly encountered reliability issues given identical issues? I wonder if rossi was dipping too much into the motor to stay with JLo?

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Quote:
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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 11:25 PM
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Sorry for the as it happens (for me) commentary but what a hell of a race finish. Would have been race of the yr if rossi had been in the mix.

JLo IS Imperious.
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Quote:
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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-23-2016, 01:37 AM
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Rossi was all over JL, and clearly had a little extra speed, but JL was magnificent under braking and preventing Rossi from making the pass stick. Real pity about the Yamahas - never heard of two letting go like that on the same day!

MM rode superbly, and did his best, but the Yamaha just has the acceleration and speed advantage this year with its smoother motor and better mechanical grip. That backwards spinning motor and irregular power stroke motor must be the tiniest little bit of advantage over the "old tech" Honda screamer motor out of the corners. I suspect that Nakamoto must be on very thin ice for failing to succeed in matching the Yamaha for two years in a row now. I'm going to guess that if they don't fix the Honda in next year's tests, MM may be in the market for Suzuki and/or Ducati. Imagine a Ducati team with JL and MM!!! Yeah, very unlikely, but who knows? :-)
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-23-2016, 06:09 AM
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No way do I see Honda letting MM go anywhere if they cannot get JLo. One of them will be a Honda factory rider ovr their career until a new alien emerges.

Honda isn't making the same team dynamic mistake Yamaha made of no clear team leader. All Honda needs to do is get back on track with their bike and we know that will be a matter of when, not if.

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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-23-2016, 09:47 PM
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Great race! I actually think Rossi looked like he would mount a pass at some time that would stick and clear away from JLo... gotta feel for the guy in front of him home crowd. He is in a deep hole for the championship now.

JLo showed a LOT of nerve fending off all challengers though... very impressive ride! Got to be odds on favorite to win another before the upcoming Duc debacle!

MM finally showing some aggression of his championship winning years. Any other rider of his caliber would be whining incessantly (anyone remember Stoner?), which to his credit shows some maturity from him.

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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-25-2016, 09:09 PM
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I'm glad rossi's motor went pop...

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-26-2016, 01:57 AM Thread Starter
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......All Honda needs to do is get back on track with their bike and we know that will be a matter of when, not if.
I totally agree. Except with this season's allotment of race engines sealed, HRC's options for coming up with meaningful solutions to address their significant acceleration deficit would appear to be pretty limited. I don't believe they'll be able to fully fix the problem until they have access to next year's new/re-developed engines.

For this season, I don't think there is much more they can do other than software/fuel mapping, gearing and aero. I don't know if they're even allowed to swap out injectors....


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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-26-2016, 03:11 AM
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For this season, I don't think there is much more they can do other than software/fuel mapping, gearing and aero. I don't know if they're even allowed to swap out injectors....
All systems around the ECU are completely "free" and can thus be changed at will, as long as the regulated ECU and it's output are completely original and unmodified.

This includes the fuel injectors, ignition coils,
electric motors, actuation coils, fuel pumps, coolant
pumps & engine lubricant pumps.

Having said that....I doubt that any of these will help Honda much in overcoming their engine and wheelspin issues. That will likely require a reconfiguration of the basic engine systems that are frozen for the year.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-26-2016, 07:11 AM Thread Starter
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All systems around the ECU are completely "free" and can thus be changed at will, as long as the regulated ECU and it's output are completely original and unmodified..
Sorry for being a little thickheaded but if I am understanding you correctly, injector sizes can be changed but the spec Magnetti Marelli ECU's mapping cannot be reprogrammed/ modified to adjust ignition advance, spark, valve timing an/or AFRs for example?

If so, that totally sucks, but I suspected as much.

Interestingly enough, Yamaha is in a unique position to claim their two engine failures at Mugello were the result of faulty parts which, under the current rules, enable them to open up their remaining allotted engines to make the necessary "fixes" and God knows what else to potentially make their superb motors even better.

I'll be surprised if Yamaha doesn't win the championship this year unless Honda is able to somehow make their bikes accelerate a little better than garden slugs and Marquez returns to riding over his head without the repeating the string of disasterous consequences of last year. In 2013 and 2014, he routinely rode the bike on the edge without falling down during actual races for the most part. Last year's bike, OTOH, was such a POS, he had to take a win or bin approach with a machine that simply couldn't keep up at the majority of tracks.

Its still going to be an exciting year...


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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-26-2016, 01:39 PM
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I think Honda's problem is an electronics issue, not an engine power issue. They are having trouble taming the wheel spin.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-26-2016, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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I think Honda's problem is an electronics issue, not an engine power issue. They are having trouble taming the wheel spin.
That's very interesting. I didn't know that. If that's truly the case, then I would think it's just a matter of sorting out gearing and the TC software but I'm kind of surprised how long it is taking HRC to get it all figured out...


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