Mugello MotoGP Spoiler!!!! - Page 2 - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-26-2016, 06:18 PM
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Pedrosa has been complaining about wheel spin all season, and he can't get the drive that he needs. Marquez hasn't complained as much, his riding style might cope with it better than Pedrosa's. You would think HRC could find a solution.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 04:09 AM
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Sorry for being a little thickheaded but if I am understanding you correctly, injector sizes can be changed but the spec Magnetti Marelli ECU's mapping cannot be reprogrammed/ modified to adjust ignition advance, spark, valve timing an/or AFRs for example?

If so, that totally sucks, but I suspected as much.

Interestingly enough, Yamaha is in a unique position to claim their two engine failures at Mugello were the result of faulty parts which, under the current rules, enable them to open up their remaining allotted engines to make the necessary "fixes" and God knows what else to potentially make their superb motors even better.

I'll be surprised if Yamaha doesn't win the championship this year unless Honda is able to somehow make their bikes accelerate a little better than garden slugs and Marquez returns to riding over his head without the repeating the string of disasterous consequences of last year. In 2013 and 2014, he routinely rode the bike on the edge without falling down during actual races for the most part. Last year's bike, OTOH, was such a POS, he had to take a win or bin approach with a machine that simply couldn't keep up at the majority of tracks.

Its still going to be an exciting year...
The injectors are free. That term is often used by the FIM in their Technical Regulations to mean that those parts can be freely changed, and have no restrictions. So yes, they can change the injectors to any type or capacity.

But the ECU and it's output is restricted and cannot be changed. So they cannot replace the firmware with their own code, nor can they change the ECU hardware in any way. They have full ability to configure the ECU within the functional limits of the firmware configurable options - i.e. they can change the timing, spark timing, fuel mixtures, anti-wheelie, etc, etc but they cannot add or subtract features to the ECU.

All of the bikes use the exact same ECU and software. The Honda issue is NOT electronics. (for the simple reason that everyone uses the same system )

The Honda issue is likely a mechanical state of tune within the engine - the cam timing, combustion chamber design, intake/exhaust port design, firing sequence design, etc, etc and, probably, some issues with overall engine/chassis configuration resulting in a less than Yamaha-perfect level of mechanical grip. This could be due to something like engine length (the V4 is a much longer engine than the I4 design of the Yamaha), which limits where the swingarm pivot can be located and the maximum swingarm length can be, etc.

The bottom line is that the Honda is basically stuck with this issue for the rest of the year, while the season engine freeze is in effect.

Regarding the Yamaha engine issue at Mugello, there is probably less than 1% chance that Yamaha will be able to do anything about the remaining engines, as the ONLY way they can make a change is to prove to the MSMA that the issue is solely a safety issue and that any change will have zero performance benefit, and the MSMA have to vote UNANIMOUSLY to allow the change. And you know who the members of MSMA are, right?

So...no way they get to open up their remaining motors and swap parts!

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by RAZR51 View Post
Pedrosa has been complaining about wheel spin all season, and he can't get the drive that he needs. Marquez hasn't complained as much, his riding style might cope with it better than Pedrosa's. You would think HRC could find a solution.
The real problem is that Rossi has custom made tires flown in overnight for him to give him an unfair advantage over the poor Hondas.....

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 04:28 PM
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camshafts...

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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 10:39 PM
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I totally agree. Except with this season's allotment of race engines sealed, HRC's options for coming up with meaningful solutions to address their significant acceleration deficit would appear to be pretty limited. I don't believe they'll be able to fully fix the problem until they have access to next year's new/re-developed engines.

For this season, I don't think there is much more they can do other than software/fuel mapping, gearing and aero. I don't know if they're even allowed to swap out injectors....
Agreed. I didn't mean specifically this season.

Any word on the Yamaha engines going?

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 05:57 PM
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it was an issue with the new spec ECM for the Yamahas, the rev limiter let the engines over rev, especially when the rear tire becomes airborn over a high speed bump...

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