Lorenzo Officially Signed Up with Ducati - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Lorenzo Officially Signed Up with Ducati

Jorge just signed a two year deal to race for the Ducati Factory MotoGP team. He'll get his first chance to sample the Ducati the day after this season's final round in Valencia. Since Ducati GP bike has become so much more user friendly, I have no doubt he'll be able to win races on it next year.

I've read speculation/rumors of Maverick Vinales and even Crazy Joe taking Lorenzo's place on the Yamaha Factory team, both of which make sense although I believe Vinales would be a better signing for Yamaha due to his age and, imo, superior ultimate talent upside.

Although it will never happen, my fantasy pick to take Jorge's place would be Stoner so he could have a shot at being the first to win a title on three makes not to mention the added drama of having Casey competing full time in MotoGP again. I don't know about Pedrosa's current contract status* with Honda but I think his potential and riding style would by far best be complemented on the M1.

* (Pedrosa's contract is up at the end of this year so perhaps he might be a candidate to sign with Yamaha in the unlikely event Vinales decides to remain with Suzuki.)



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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-19-2016, 11:14 PM
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So say George wins title again this year he leaves and goes to Ducati


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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So say George wins title again this year he leaves and goes to Ducati
Seeing how he's just won his third title on the M1 last season, Jorge's decision to leave Yamaha definitely seems motivated/influenced by other reasons regardless of whether or not he wins the championship again this year.


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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 04:13 AM
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Haha, just another rider that can't stand Rossi and his pathetic traveling circus. I'm sure Lorenzo wishes he could ride next to Marquez.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 04:21 PM
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It will be interesting to see what Lorenzo does with the Ducati. I wonder if he got a pay raise. I think he should've stayed at Yamaha.
MM will win the title this year. He will win 8 out of the next 10
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-20-2016, 05:30 PM
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I'm sure Lorenzo wishes he could ride Marquez.

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 12:27 AM
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 12:38 AM
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It will be interesting to see what Lorenzo does with the Ducati. I wonder if he got a pay raise. I think he should've stayed at Yamaha.
MM will win the title this year. He will win 8 out of the next 10

Lorenzo is going for PRIMARILY the money. Deep pockets by Philip-Morris and Audi, that Movistar and Monster can't hope to match.

It remains to be seen if he can ride the Ducati, which, albeit very much improved over the last 2 years with Gigi's influence....is not as close a match for his unique riding style.

I suspect his natural talent will make him competitive from the word go. Perhaps not MM competitive, but certainly Rossi competitive.

And there's no-one really else in it....

I suspect that MM will dominate much of this season, with Lolly coming back in the latter half with his preferred tracks. I give Lolly the best odds at winning the Championship again, this year. He remains the most complete overall rider, IMO....as I've said so many times.

But perhaps Rossi will continue to be a threat again. It takes only a single problem from any of them to change the situation.

This must be Danni's last year. Feel sorry for the little guy. Always the second stringer, yet such a tough little dude, and he's really changed my view of him over the years.

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-21-2016, 03:46 AM Thread Starter
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Lorenzo is going for PRIMARILY the money. Deep pockets by Philip-Morris and Audi, that Movistar and Monster can't hope to match.

It remains to be seen if he can ride the Ducati, which, albeit very much improved over the last 2 years with Gigi's influence....is not as close a match for his unique riding style.

I suspect his natural talent will make him competitive from the word go. Perhaps not MM competitive, but certainly Rossi competitive.
Money undoubtedly played a significant role in Jorge's decision making process but I also believe there were other reasons that represented a major part in his choice to switch teams. Several of them are touched upon in Julian Ryder's recent SBPlanet article: Soup :: Ryder Notes: Motivations of a Man Sitting in Coach :: 04-06-2016

I also don't think Lorenzo would make this move if he did not legitimately believe he could win races and do as well, if not better, racing the Ducati. Dall'Igna has turned around their entire program since his arrival and at Lorenzo's current level of performance and ability, there's nothing that either Iannone or Dovi can do on the Duc that he can't do better. He's smoother, more precise and at a higher level overall than either of them. As presently configured, the Ducati is no longer the bucking, unruly beast that only Stoner could tame.

I also understand that Stoner (who posted better testing times than Dovi and Joe despite layoff rust) communicated directly with Jorge telling him that he could win races on the bike now.

And in the final analysis, who are we to judge what the best career choices are for Jorge in terms of knowing what motivates and makes him happy? I'm inclined to suspect he knows what's best for him better than anyone else.....


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-22-2016, 03:44 AM
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Money reports so far say the offers weren't that far apart. Hard to believe he would risk a lot over 1-2M esp. given his earnings to date.

I think the offer included building a brand around JLo as clear #1 rider. Ducati has a lot to offer. Despite his talent and his titles I never felt Jarvis was in his corner. Jarvis has always been (media) presented as a Rossi man.

Signing Rossi first seemed odd. (1) You sign the #1 rider and reigning champion first; secure your future. (2) Where was Rossi going to go? Surely not Ducati, Honda or Suzuki. So my guess is Jarvis figured JLo for a lock. (3) The bad blood from the last contract, where JLo got undercut.

My guess, Jarvis cocked it up. What else would you consider it when the #1 rider leaves for a relatively unproven product.

I expect if 2017 & 2018 don't see a Yamaha title Jarvis will be quietly retired to an ''executive'' position while Rossi calls it a day.

My previous pts may be totally invalid but ignoring them doesn't help Jarvis look any more competent as a team manager, whose sole job is to ensure the talent remains and the team's future is secure. Rossi was a lock. He shouldn't have treated JLo as such.

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-22-2016, 04:18 AM
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Geebus,

Just read the J Ryder article. Jarvis really cocked it up.

Soup :: Ryder Notes: Almost Hugging It Out :: 04-21-2016

Only time I've ever seen a team manager retain their job after this type of cock up is F1 with Alonso. Ron Dennis. But then again, he owned the team. And the company. And had a young champion in waiting.

This is even more damning. I never knew this? You guys?

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2016/...ydoesjorge.htm



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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-22-2016, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Money reports so far say the offers weren't that far apart. Hard to believe he would risk a lot over 1-2M esp. given his earnings to date.

I think the offer included building a brand around JLo as clear #1 rider. Ducati has a lot to offer. Despite his talent and his titles I never felt Jarvis was in his corner. Jarvis has always been (media) presented as a Rossi man.

Signing Rossi first seemed odd. (1) You sign the #1 rider and reigning champion first; secure your future. (2) Where was Rossi going to go? Surely not Ducati, Honda or Suzuki. So my guess is Jarvis figured JLo for a lock. (3) The bad blood from the last contract, where JLo got undercut.

My guess, Jarvis cocked it up. What else would you consider it when the #1 rider leaves for a relatively unproven product.

I expect if 2017 & 2018 don't see a Yamaha title Jarvis will be quietly retired to an ''executive'' position while Rossi calls it a day.

My previous pts may be totally invalid but ignoring them doesn't help Jarvis look any more competent as a team manager, whose sole job is to ensure the talent remains and the team's future is secure. Rossi was a lock. He shouldn't have treated JLo as such.
Great post. I believe you pretty much nailed it. I think Jorge has felt disrespected and relegated to 2nd class citizenship status within the team despite having been the one delivering the last three titles. Of course, Rossi has the biggest fan base of anyone in MotoGP and has the greatest marketing value. Herein lies the rub. I think Lorenzo's dislike for Rossi or at least what he perceives as Rossi's special treatment has been festering for a while and came to a boil at the end of last season when it became clear there was an open split between the two. One of them had to get out of Dodge and it wasn't going to be Rossi.

So when Rossi/Yamaha announced his fat new contract extension, Jorge knew he had to rigorously explore all potential avenues. Rossi suggesting that Jorge didn't have the balls to leave Yamaha likely fueled Jorge's desire to go elsewhere.

On the other hand, if Yamaha are able to sign Vinales (who is generally regarded as the most talented, young, up and comer) and he fulfills his anticipated potential, Jarvis will have saved his own neck from the chopping block. I think Rossi's best and final chance for another title came and went last year so if Yamaha are to win another rider's championship in the post Lorenzo era, it will have come from whomever they sign to replace Jorge.......
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-23-2016, 05:25 AM
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Geebus,

Just read the J Ryder article. Jarvis really cocked it up.

Soup :: Ryder Notes: Almost Hugging It Out :: 04-21-2016

Only time I've ever seen a team manager retain their job after this type of cock up is F1 with Alonso. Ron Dennis. But then again, he owned the team. And the company. And had a young champion in waiting.

This is even more damning. I never knew this? You guys?

Soup :: Lorenzo: Why Do I Have To Be The Janitor? :: 04-21-2016



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I don't see how or why you think Jarvis cocked anything up at all. It's not Jarvis's fault that Lorenzo comes across like a petulant little prick sometimes, while Rossi continues to be hugely popular. One has only to witness any race event at any venue to see the extent of Rossi's influence, popularity and sponsorship draw.

At COTA, Rossi had 20x more fans waiting for a glimpse of him in the paddock than Lorenzo, and the only one remotely close to his popularity was MM (perhaps half as many fans as Rossi in the paddock and about 10% as many around the track overall).

Rossi is the power player. Rossi is still fast. Rossi would have won the championship if the Spanish trio hadn't decided to make it their's (against Movistar's, Monster's and Yamaha's wishes, I might add!), and so yes, Jarvis got the guy he really wanted, first. Sure, he would have probably loved to retain Lorenzo, but having a top rider like Rossi competing for the Championship and potentially getting a real strong young talent like Maverick join the team for the future, is not a bad position to be in.

So...cock-up? Nah, I don't see it. I think he's fairly comfortable with what he's got and setting up for the future.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-23-2016, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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I don't see how or why you think Jarvis cocked anything up at all. It's not Jarvis's fault that Lorenzo comes across like a petulant little prick sometimes, while Rossi continues to be hugely popular. One has only to witness any race event at any venue to see the extent of Rossi's influence, popularity and sponsorship draw.

At COTA, Rossi had 20x more fans waiting for a glimpse of him in the paddock than Lorenzo, and the only one remotely close to his popularity was MM (perhaps half as many fans as Rossi in the paddock and about 10% as many around the track overall).

Rossi is the power player. Rossi is still fast. Rossi would have won the championship if the Spanish trio hadn't decided to make it their's (against Movistar's, Monster's and Yamaha's wishes, I might add!), and so yes, Jarvis got the guy he really wanted, first. Sure, he would have probably loved to retain Lorenzo, but having a top rider like Rossi competing for the Championship and potentially getting a real strong young talent like Maverick join the team for the future, is not a bad position to be in.

So...cock-up? Nah, I don't see it. I think he's fairly comfortable with what he's got and setting up for the future.
Who do you think will finish with more points this year between Rossi and Lorenzo?


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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-23-2016, 11:25 PM
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Who do you think will finish with more points this year between Rossi and Lorenzo?
Good question. They are so closely matched, it could go either way. A few rain races, and it's Rossi, IMO. Any mistake from here, and it could swing it to the other. I suspect that if it's very close at the end, it may get decided not by the rider. I hope not, but we know that Yamaha were pissed that JL took it away from Rossi last year....and while I think Yamaha are the team LEAST likely to try to swing it one way of the other, one can never be sure.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-25-2016, 05:09 AM
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and he's really changed my view of him over the years.
Your view of everyone changes race by race. You're a Rossi fan, then a Marquez fanboy, and then Rossi wins again so you're back to sucking his knob and then Dani wins and you love his grit and then Marquez crashes and you hate him but Rossi wins and you're stoked because he's not done.....................yawn. Sometimes I wonder if you even read the shit you post. I know you don't believe it, but I just wonder if you actually read it.

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-06-2016, 02:39 AM Thread Starter
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....... I don't know about Pedrosa's current contract status* with Honda but I think his potential and riding style would by far best be complemented on the M1.

* (Pedrosa's contract is up at the end of this year so perhaps he might be a candidate to sign with Yamaha in the unlikely event Vinales decides to remain with Suzuki.)
At this point, it's becoming widely acknowledged that if Vinales decides to remain with Suzuki, then Dani will be the clear cut choice to take Lorenzo's seat on the Factory Yamaha team. Pedrosa's riding style is closer to Jorge's than any other potential candidate and coupled with the fact that Telefonica Movistar is the principal sponsor, it's essentially a given that whomever is going to be signed must carry a Spanish passport.

If the deal is concluded, I believe the combination of Dani and the M1 offers the legitimate potential for him to have the most competitive season(s) of his long career. I have little doubt that if he were riding the M1 this year, he would be doing better on it than he is on the Honda.


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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 03:14 AM
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Good question. They are so closely matched, it could go either way. A few rain races, and it's Rossi, IMO. Any mistake from here, and it could swing it to the other. I suspect that if it's very close at the end, it may get decided not by the rider. I hope not, but we know that Yamaha were pissed that JL took it away from Rossi last year....and while I think Yamaha are the team LEAST likely to try to swing it one way of the other, one can never be sure.
No, we know Jarvis was pissed, not Yamaha. there's a distinction.

Also, if you need rain races to stay in the mix you are not evenly matched.

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 03:33 AM
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I don't see how or why you think Jarvis cocked anything up at all. It's not Jarvis's fault that Lorenzo comes across like a petulant little prick sometimes, while Rossi continues to be hugely popular. One has only to witness any race event at any venue to see the extent of Rossi's influence, popularity and sponsorship draw.

At COTA, Rossi had 20x more fans waiting for a glimpse of him in the paddock than Lorenzo, and the only one remotely close to his popularity was MM (perhaps half as many fans as Rossi in the paddock and about 10% as many around the track overall).

Rossi is the power player. Rossi is still fast. Rossi would have won the championship if the Spanish trio hadn't decided to make it their's (against Movistar's, Monster's and Yamaha's wishes, I might add!), and so yes, Jarvis got the guy he really wanted, first. Sure, he would have probably loved to retain Lorenzo, but having a top rider like Rossi competing for the Championship and potentially getting a real strong young talent like Maverick join the team for the future, is not a bad position to be in.

So...cock-up? Nah, I don't see it. I think he's fairly comfortable with what he's got and setting up for the future.
Of course you don't.

I get that you are firmly implanted in the rossi camp but even you should be able to see through the ever cloudy rose-tinted glasses that rossi is the past not the future for Yamaha.

Letting a rider of JLo's talent leave is inane. This isn't a Big Brother reality show, popularity worldwide is irrelevant esp. when you consider that everyone is 2nd to rossi. Also keeping JLo wouldn't have impacted rossi so your pt doesn't make any sense.

I'm not going to rehash the plethora of laptime evidenced-based arguments contrary to your ''it felt like conspiracy'' fanboy argument. I don't need to do what more learned fellows like Moody and Ryder have already done.

You don't let that kind of talent walk out the door.

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-07-2016, 06:14 AM
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Of course you don't.

I get that you are firmly implanted in the rossi camp but even you should be able to see through the ever cloudy rose-tinted glasses that rossi is the past not the future for Yamaha.

Letting a rider of JLo's talent leave is inane. This isn't a Big Brother reality show, popularity worldwide is irrelevant esp. when you consider that everyone is 2nd to rossi. Also keeping JLo wouldn't have impacted rossi so your pt doesn't make any sense.

I'm not going to rehash the plethora of laptime evidenced-based arguments contrary to your ''it felt like conspiracy'' fanboy argument. I don't need to do what more learned fellows like Moody and Ryder have already done.

You don't let that kind of talent walk out the door.
You think the MotoGP circus is NOT a circus, eh?

OK, so we disagree. I'm perfectly fine with that.

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