The Official 2015 Moto GP Thread - With Spoilers - Page 4 - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #61 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 01:49 AM
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IMO, the biggest thing standing between JLo being champion could turn out to be rain races. Since his big crash in 2013, he is clearly no longer at ease riding in the wet. A few wet races could see his present momentum grind to a halt....

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post #62 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 03:53 AM
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...and give Rossi chance to win back some points, to keep the Championship interesting.

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post #63 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 12:10 AM
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Another curveball for HRC in its efforts to remedy its ill-handling 2015 bike:
"Work continues on the electronics, all the way up to the software freeze due at the end of this month, ahead of the adoption of spec electronics for 2016."

Notes from the Catalunya Post-Race Test: Honda’s 2014/2015 Hybrid, & The Frustration of Weather

Forgive me for gloating, but I have to laugh when I think of all the armchair team managers who were loudly boasting to the world of HRC's insurmountable technical superiority (ironically, Kevin Cameron got caught up in the frenzy too, which surprises me, but alas, he is human too) and who forecast an unending period of Honda dominance. Seems said individuals forgot HRC is comprised of humans. Ah, how quickly they forget (including Yamaha's impressive and dominant 2004-2012 period).

HRC will be back no doubt (if for no other reason than by spending their way out, as they did on numerous times in the past... think RC45) , just (likely) not this year..... Suck it up big fellas, lol

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post #64 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 12:27 AM
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Yeah, BUT!!!!

There is little doubt that Honda was the better overall package in recent years, until this year, IMO. They made a serious miscalculation (probably by the backroom engineers) in terms of power vs rideability this year. On the other hand, Yamaha have come good with their version of the sequential gearbox this year, and solved their early season tire issues last year, so one thing we can always bank on is...nothing stays the same for very long!!!

To say that Honda did not have a superior package over the last couple of years is as wrong as saying that Yamaha does not have the superior package this year. Both are true, IMO.

Look at Ducati's fortunes....in the space of a single year!
And Suzuki, performing as well as they have (albeit with some fairly significant technical advantages offered to them)

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post #65 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 01:22 AM
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very true, but our resident know-it-alls were proudly espousing HRC's infallibility as if they were destined to stay on top forever.... and we see how they are doing this year aren't we? As I said, they all have their highs and lows and anyone who thinks otherwise is.... a fool.

Ducati have greatly upped their game in one short year and Suzuki are progressing quite quickly too. They will all (HRC, Yamaha, Ducati and Suzuki, possibly with Aprilia and KTM to join the club in coming years) have their ups and down in the future, as they should.

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post #66 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 01:56 AM
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At least one of the local know it alls said that Honda and/or Yamaha should have considered adopting the Open rule option. If not in 2014 when I proposed it, then seriously consider it this season after recognizing the benefits of extra fuel and engine development options.

Honda would never admit it due to corporate ego, but If the Repsol bikes had 22L of fuel and engine development this season might be very different.

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post #67 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mikstr View Post
Another curveball for HRC in its efforts to remedy its ill-handling 2015 bike:
"Work continues on the electronics, all the way up to the software freeze due at the end of this month, ahead of the adoption of spec electronics for 2016."

Notes from the Catalunya Post-Race Test: Honda’s 2014/2015 Hybrid, & The Frustration of Weather

Forgive me for gloating, but I have to laugh when I think of all the armchair team managers who were loudly boasting to the world of HRC's insurmountable technical superiority (ironically, Kevin Cameron got caught up in the frenzy too, which surprises me, but alas, he is human too) and who forecast an unending period of Honda dominance. Seems said individuals forgot HRC is comprised of humans. Ah, how quickly they forget (including Yamaha's impressive and dominant 2004-2012 period).

HRC will be back no doubt (if for no other reason than by spending their way out, as they did on numerous times in the past... think RC45) , just (likely) not this year..... Suck it up big fellas, lol
Not really understanding the gloating or the hating but whatever makes you happy . We'd have nothing MGP to talk about without Honda; IOW no Moto GP would exist without Honda on the grid. Love 'em or hate 'em the sport needs 'em. Take a look at how many teams run Honda equipment in the series...

I think Honda's MGP dominance and Honda's technical dominance is very clear. Honda has won 63 GP titles (500, 350, 250, 125, 50) to Yamaha's 36. Everyone wants to be on a Honda because the odds are it will be more often good than bad. Even this yr, TBF, the bike isn't as bad as the results show. MM would be 3rd in the championship and within a shout if he had ridden a more prudent ride when the bike wasn't there.

I think guys like Kevin Cameron, who have forgotten more than we could ever understand, have got it right. While Honda may be struggling this season, possibly due to their own rule preference biting them in the ass or a less than calculating rider, overall wins totally favour Honda as does the technical superiority.

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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #68 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 03:29 AM
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MGP is better with Honda in the mix, of that there is no doubt (but that extends to all other possible entrants, the more the merrier), and it's likely the expressed opinion of the "need" to have them there (one which is obviously widely held) which allows them to strong-arm the organizers. Again, is the sport better with them in it? Definitely. Would it fail without them? I doubt it. Case in point, GP survived just fine without them in the mix in the 1970s (after they unceremoniously walked away from racing, so much for caring about the show and fans)...

As for their technical superiority, I didn't realise that 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2012 were just flukes by "the other guys"...

as for the "hate", I have simply grown tired of people kneeling before the HRC idol..... I simply find it difficult to hold a group which constantly manipulates rules (though some have chosen to disregard this fact, which is ok, we live in free countries after all) for its own ends in awe, guess it offends my sense of justice and fair play.... much as I wouldn't care to play poker with someone who marks cards, but that's just me.... I apologize if my opinions offend you, but, what good is a forum if we can't express them?

Finally, as for Cameron, he is IMO the best technical writer motojournalism has ever had..... but that doesn't make him perfect or above his own personal bias, he is human after all......

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post #69 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Another curveball for HRC in its efforts to remedy its ill-handling 2015 bike:
"Work continues on the electronics, all the way up to the software freeze due at the end of this month, ahead of the adoption of spec electronics for 2016."

Notes from the Catalunya Post-Race Test: Honda’s 2014/2015 Hybrid, & The Frustration of Weather

Forgive me for gloating, but I have to laugh when I think of all the armchair team managers who were loudly boasting to the world of HRC's insurmountable technical superiority (ironically, Kevin Cameron got caught up in the frenzy too, which surprises me, but alas, he is human too) and who forecast an unending period of Honda dominance. Seems said individuals forgot HRC is comprised of humans. Ah, how quickly they forget (including Yamaha's impressive and dominant 2004-2012 period).

HRC will be back no doubt (if for no other reason than by spending their way out, as they did on numerous times in the past... think RC45) , just (likely) not this year..... Suck it up big fellas, lol

I wouldn't go as far as to call the Honda "Ill handling". Marquez can put that bike anywhere he wants. He's just pushing a little bit too hard when he should be backing off and it seems that the bike .....which really hasn't changed much, simply doesn't like the new Bridgestone tires for 2015. They were all struggling with the new front tires early in the season.

They're just a little bit behind when it comes to setting up the bike around the new tires.

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post #70 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 11:14 PM
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I wouldn't go as far as to call the Honda "Ill handling". Marquez can put that bike anywhere he wants.
Realistically, Marquez could likely go fast on a wheelbarrow (I have a admit that watching him "back it into a corner" makes for spectacular viewing). However, the fact that everyone else is dropping like flies race after race is a pretty good indicator that their bike is not up to snuff...... There is no doubt they will eventually work it out, but for the present time, their bike is clearly not the class of the field.... and comments from various Honda-mounted riders (Crutchlow, Redding, among others) back this up......

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post #71 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 11:36 PM
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The turnaround of Jorge Lorenzo in 2015 | Sport Rider

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post #72 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 11:48 PM
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some more reading:
Marquez struggles with the fine line between glory & gravel

Disregard the following line, however: "The Yamaha YZR-M1 is now the undisputed technical benchmark in MotoGP." The author clearly is not aware of HRC's technical supremacy.....

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post #73 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 12:51 AM
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some more reading:
Marquez struggles with the fine line between glory & gravel

Disregard the following line, however: "The Yamaha YZR-M1 is now the undisputed technical benchmark in MotoGP." The author clearly is not aware of HRC's technical supremacy.....
You're right, of course! But then, even fans become totally illogical at times. as we have seen over and over with some right here....fawning over young, incredibly talented, riders who are only starting their careers and have yet to even be fully tested as long-term champions, and considering them to be immediately GOAT status.

The more mature amongst up know there is more to it than that....thanks for keeping us in check. Same with the Honda vs Yamaha discussion.

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post #74 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 01:00 AM
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I'll be the first to admit that logic and emotional/passion cannot simultaneously co-exist (and have my moments of being blinded by passion). However, there inevitably comes a time in the logical person 's existence wherein he/she becomes aware of universal principles like everyone and everything has its ups and downs.... Blind obedience is, IMO, simply out of step with a rational mind and its very existence leaves me questioning the mental and emotional health of the person afflicted with it..... but then, I find the notions of luck, Fate, superstition and astrology to be ridiculous....

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post #75 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 02:24 AM
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Forgive me for gloating, but I have to laugh when I think of all the armchair team managers who were loudly boasting to the world of HRC's insurmountable technical superiority..... and who forecast an unending period of Honda dominance.
Please forgive me for asking but who the heck were all these people anyway? Are you referring to a significant number of Speedzilla members who posted such statements or just a couple individuals who honestly subscribed to the notion of Honda's permanent and everlasting omnipotence or are/were they just possibly a couple of troublemakers deliberately seeking to incite/inflame? I'm not doubting the veracity of your remarks. I'm just looking for the source of who expressed such ridiculous opinions and whether they were from here or elsewhere.


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post #76 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 02:26 AM
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very true, but our resident know-it-alls were proudly espousing HRC's infallibility as if they were destined to stay on top forever.... and we see how they are doing this year aren't we?
Who they be?


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post #77 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 02:37 AM
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some Speedzilla members; go back and do a search, it's all there.....

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post #78 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 08:56 AM
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some Speedzilla members; go back and do a search, it's all there.....
\

Unless you provide me with some names (the guilty shouldn't worry about standing by their convictions regardless of how misguided they might be) I'd have to file this under hearsay or fiction. I honestly don't remember anyone here ever seriously making any such declarations of Honda's supremacy from now until the end of time.


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post #79 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-18-2015, 10:55 AM
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didn't realise I was being tried in the court of Speedzilla....... anyhow, I have no time/desire to search - you do the work if you care to know, will all due respect, I don't particularly care to compensate for someone else's memory gaps....

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post #80 of 196 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 03:53 AM
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didn't realise I was being tried in the court of Speedzilla....... anyhow, I have no time/desire to search - you do the work if you care to know, will all due respect, I don't particularly care to compensate for someone else's memory gaps....
My sincere apologies if I gave you the impression I was doubting you or appearing to put you on trial in any way. : ( I mentioned in a previous post that I wasn't questioning the veracity of your remarks. With my diminished mental capacities, my memory truly sucks and I just don't remember anyone here making the declarations you enthusiastically made numerous references to in this thread. Since you seemed so juiced up about it, I just thought/assumed (apparently wrongly so) that the identities of the perps must have been fresh in your mind. Maybe you're just not comfortable naming names. Whatever. If you don't care or are unable to help me out that's perfectly fine.



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