Hi again, strange one, I ride the bike everyday, stayed at my girlfriends for a few days.... The bike had been sitting only for 3 days, went to start it to go to work and noticed the FI light did not come on when the pre-ignition start-up sequence runs through its little mode and the bike does not start??? The tacho still does it's normal jig and the speedo does the 299km/h thing but no FI light and will not start. Any ideas? The bike has run perfect everyday for ages. Just installed a power commander but it ran fine with that. Must be electrical I am guessing???
Pull the PC and see if she starts without it. PC's going bad for no apparent reason is not entirley uncommon. I'm assuming the STOP/RUN switch is in the RUN position. The only reason I say this is that we took a rough SP2 in trade at Daytona a few weeks ago, and one of the sales guys was bitching he couldn't get it to turn over. I walked over and flipped the switch without a word, and walked back to my lift. It sounds obvious, but even I've done it in the garage, and wondered WTF for a few seconds.
BTW , if memory serves , the bike will still turn over with the switch on STOP , but won't start . Good for circulating oil after sitting during winter .
Thanks "Defender" will try that fix. I thought the same with the kill switch, flicked it on and off repeatedly - it does not have the sound of the fuel pump or the FI light? Just been scouring speedzilla for similar answers - there are alot of possibilities so think I will be busy tomorrow!!!
I would also check your grounds and make sure they are tight and have a good earth first, then I would then look at the fuel pump relay. Maybe check to make sure the ECU harnesses are securely plugged into the ECU, and if you remove them, check for corrosion at the contacts, although I don't think this is the cause. Also the bank angle sensor has a connection to the fuel pump relay and will cut it off if it senses a tip over. This could have failed, or the connection may be loose.
Thanks for the ifo will give it a try this morning.... I did notice when I lifted the back seat cover where the power commander sits - when I turned the ignition key and tried to start it the power commander light did not come on. Might try the 9 volt battery on it, if I get no response then maybe I got a dud power commander unit?
Is it common for them to shit themselves? Mine is only a month or two old.....
It happens more often than you would think. Enough so that people's first reaction is to remove it and start from there. Have you pulled it out completely to eliminate it as the problem?
Just about to finish night shift and go home and try that......
Might sleep for a while first though - will try the PC3 to eliminate it from the list. If it works with the 9V battery plugged in, surely that would mean it is OK? I could plug in my laptop & check the map too. If it does not work with the 9V battery it must be dead......
Now it is getting wierd. Took the rear seat cover off and connected the 9V battery to the power commander = it lights up, so I am guessing it is OK. Checked the powercommander plugs, the wire to the battery, all seem fine.... Turned the key and it started!!!
Tried starting it a couple of times to be sure and all good. Put everything back together and.... IT WONT START!!! Took it all apart, checked everything again and of course it started, put it back together and it wont. I am trying to guess but I think when I put the riders seat back and bolt it down that seems to be the killer. So I checked the wiring from the powercommander and sure enough it was being squashed by the seat. So I moved the wiring and now I am back to square one. It wont start.
Does this sound like the powercommander is faulty or is the wiring very delicate and the seat touching the wiring loom even slightly will stop it from working?
It sounds like you may have caused a short in the PC harness with the seat. Is the harness coming out of the PC bent or strained at a severe angle? Is there any visible damage to the PC harness? If I remember correctly the PC wires are 18 ga. or smaller, so they could be smashed and shorted pretty easily. You could split the shrink wrap or loom off of the harness and check to see if there are any bare wires exposed along the length. That seems to be the likely culprit.
I cut open the Power Commander loom near the battery connection, all looked good. I even totally took off the PC3 and tried to start it with the stock ECU and nothing.
Then I kept looking at what else was near the battery and there is a big 30 AMP fuse with 2 red wires coming out of it. I checked and it seems to have a loose wire in there so I took it off the cradle on the battery cover that it slides into and cable tied it to another loom so as not to bend the wires going into it and it starts!!! Got the PC3 all hooked up again, all working as normal so far. I went and bought a new waterproof fuse holder which I will put on to hopefully avoid this again.
I am not 100% confident it is fixed because it started 15 times in a row earlier then when I went back it would not. Just wondering would the starter relay cause it to start sometimes and not others? Or if the relay was stuffed would it just not work altogether? I took the relay out and turned the key just to see and I get the exact same problem I am having now, where it does the start up jig but no FI or fuel pump, so I am thinking it might be worth replacing just for my peace of mind....
Before you go off on a rabbit trail lets get back to when you found the issue. You mentioned that the bike runs fine with the seat off, an not start with it on. Your problem lies there. In order for us to be able to better help you we'll need to see pictures of the area from all kinds of angles(from just about any angle from above at a 45 degree. Would help to remove your tail fairing as well.
From what you have described i betting there is a wire routing issue that should be a relatively easy fix. We'll also need to see how the bottom of the seat interacts with the sub frame.....you'll want to put the seat in place and slightly pick up the rear and snap a few shot from the side as you pull up the rear edge of the seat. An easy way to see if you have any interference is to put a thin layer of grease on the underside of the seat. Bolt it down and sit on the bike. Squiggle around to see if you can get any part of the seat to mash down into something in the subframe. Pull the seat and see if any grease is left on anything in the subframe. You can use a very thin coating of a bearing grease, or something that is thick enough to be spread out and not drip. Only takes a very thin layer, and wipe up is easy enough.
Had a good nights sleep, went and tested it and she fired up no worries. I am assuming it was the 30 AMP fuse wiring which I have re-routed so the wires do not bend and when the seat is fixed in position it has no weight or pressure anywhere near it. Also re-routed the power commander so it is free of any seat pressure.
All seems fine now.... will update if it does it again.
IT DID IT AGAIN!!! - So, basically I stripped the whole back fairing off the bike, took photo's as Varium suggested, unplugged and plugged back in every wire in site, cleaned with RP7 everywhere (we had huge dust storms followed by heavy rain) so I thought the shit would of got in everywhere!
Now for my results.... part 2 - I am almost certain it is the Run/Off switch. When I switched it back and forth quickly I noticed a delay in the FI light and the fuel pump coming on.... Sometimes it did nothing. Sprayed some RP7 in the joint and flicked the Run/Off switch a million times so the RP7 would get in.... And hey presto the FI light comes on instantly when I flick the Run/Off switch Off to Run - over and over I have tried it. My guess is the huge dust storms we had got in there somehow......
Will update again if it does it again
Varium, I have photo's from every angle if it comes to that.... thanks mate!
Glad to hear you got it worked out. Was the bike left out in the dust storm, or was it just residual dust from the roadway that worked its way into the housing? Just curious.
IT DID IT AGAIN!!! - So, basically I stripped the whole back fairing off the bike, took photo's as Varium suggested, unplugged and plugged back in every wire in site, cleaned with RP7 everywhere (we had huge dust storms followed by heavy rain) so I thought the shit would of got in everywhere!
Now for my results.... part 2 - I am almost certain it is the Run/Off switch. When I switched it back and forth quickly I noticed a delay in the FI light and the fuel pump coming on.... Sometimes it did nothing. Sprayed some RP7 in the joint and flicked the Run/Off switch a million times so the RP7 would get in.... And hey presto the FI light comes on instantly when I flick the Run/Off switch Off to Run - over and over I have tried it. My guess is the huge dust storms we had got in there somehow......
Will update again if it does it again
Varium, I have photo's from every angle if it comes to that.... thanks mate!
Ash
If you think it may be the kill switch then i'd take 5 minutes to pull it off the bike and clean it out real good. Then you'll know for certain it won't act up again. If left alone it could develop slug/mud inside there and give you trouble down the road. Would be an easy thing to check out and give you peace of mind. If you folks have liquid electrical tape down there you may want to coat everything inside the housing that is an exposed metal surface to be sure it doesn't happen again......that is if the housing was messed up with dust to begin with.
Something that i would want to do would be to pull the top of the air box and have a look inside. If there was enough wind to drive dust into the kill switch i can't help but thing a whole big mess got into the air intake. At the very least the filters could be mucked up. And if its worse you'll want to get inside the airbox asap to clean it all up before something else starts happening with the bike that could be contributed to a messy airbox. You'll also want to make sure the oil overflow/pressure bottle is hooked up to the under side if the airbox, or the bottom hole on the airbox is plugged off. If there is a tiny leak in the seal down there you could have sucked up a mess of dust.
If these dust storms are fairly common it may be a good idea to get a plug of foam for the intake. You can cut out the correct shape so it seals on the inside of the intake to keep from having to worry about going through all this every time i storm comes through. The seat foam we use on our bikes would work or even foam used for kayak seats will work great and is easy to find. Hell, anything you can put over/into the intake opening that isn't very porous will work.
In answer to Defender's question, the bike was garaged that day but even inside the garage my car and bike still got a coating of dust the storm was that bad, the whole city of Brisbane was covered in red dust that had been picked up from central Australia and travelled by wind about 1000km's - I think it even hit New Zealand!!! It was a freak thing, lasted about 3 days, I actually got sick from breathing the shit in......
As you suggested Varium I did pull the run/off switch apart and cleaned it out totally, my bike mechanic uses brake cleaner to clean out switches so I had some of that myself and sprayed it in everywhere. Did another 100 flicks back and forth and the FI light and the fuel pump come on immediately now, so hopefully that is all fixed.
In regards to the airbox it is due for a service in about 4 weeks time so I will get them to clean it out again. I had the K&N filters cleaned last time and I service it every 6 months so I dont think that will be a problem. I was going to buy a Turnone airbox but after those dust storms and the heavy rain downpours I often ride in I am not sure that would be a wise decision considering I ride practically everyday..... As far as I know they do not run air filters at all, just a filter at the front of the ram air intake which the dust would of got through for sure and rain might have an adverse effect too.... I would hate to think what it would do to my nice V-twin engine......
Fingers crossed it is now fixed..... I will ride it to work this afternoon and find out!!!!
Thanks for your help - this site is great for do it yourself fixes, love it!!!
FI light does not come on and wont start?
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