Billet cams

[dstewart]

One set of HRC retainers should last you a very long time. I have never heard of anyone having problems with the HRC retainers. Honda guys have told me they are near bullet prof. Having a extra set of springs on hand cant hurt, that way when its time to freshen up the engine if you cant find the springs at that point your not out of luck. Depending on the cams, Dales, Thorstens, Mori Stage 2 or HRC and how hard you are on the engine will determine how long the springs will last. The HRC springs with HRC cams had a recommended service interval of something like 1000 miles but that was with a 12,000 RPM limiter and never seeing anything below 8,500 RPM durning its life. The HRC cams are more aggressive then Dales grind so Dales cams should be much easier on the springs. Light weight valves, buckets, retainers wont help with spring life. The light parts are only needed to prevent valve float and the damage that WILL occur from the lobes smacking the buckets at high RPM. The HRC springs actually have less seat pressure then OEM and therefore require some mass reduction to prevent float especially if the limiter is to be raised over stock. No one can tell you exactly how much mass is required to loose for any giving RPM limit or cam combo, only an educated guess.

For what its worth, the only thing I can tell you about the HRC seats are they where Ti. I am double and tipple checking with some Honda guys regarding any other, if any, differences that would "require" the kit seats. I should hear back from them in a day or two.

[dstewart]

Correct #'s for HRC SP1 Kit valve train parts

Valve springs (inner and outter assebmly) 8x requierd = 14750-NL6-000

Valve spring retainer (use OEM keapers) 8 x requierd = 14771-NL6-000



See link for more SP1 HRC part #'s RSC-PARTS

[thorsten]

So I would take 24 Retainers , aswell as springs

[dstewart]

Originally Posted by irishaggression

i talked to simons cantact in japan. this is what he replied with.

"" Thank you for e-mail

I checked price

16x # Valve spring:14750-NL6-700 = 1,980 yen
16x # Retainer : 14771-NL6-000 = 1,980 yen ""

so 1980 yen = 17.99$
I am assuming those prices are for each spring and each retainer.
so it looks like it comes out to about 288$ dont know about
the shipping

You would only need 8x retainers and 8x springs as the spring is sold as an inner/outer assembly. I dont know about the part # you have for the springs above, see my post just above. The -700 is almost 3 times the cost and I cant find any info for the -700, only the -000. The 14750-NL6-000 is what is shown in the HRC SP1 Manual as well.


Here is a photo of the HRC SP1 parts I have received in the past.

[dstewart]

Well, I got off the phone with Rick Hobbs and Brian Ucheata (sp?) today. Brian is an American Honda road racing guy but mostly dealt with the works parts not the kit parts. Rick built many SP1's with kit parts and had some memory of what he found out, here is what they remember. Brian says he has never seen any HRC valve seats that where Ti, they have all been steel. Rick seems to recall the HRC SP1 seats where thinner to allow more valve lift with out the springs going in to bind. Rick said from what he remembers you could not run the HRC cams with the HRC springs and retainers with out the HRC seats with out binding issues. With the lift of Dales cams there is no problem with spring binding with the OEM seats. Rick could not tell me for cretin but he believes the inner seat may have a slightly different diameter to fit the inner spring better and prevent the spring form walking around and causing wear to the seat or spring. As I said, Rick is going off his memory and the only way to be 100% is to install and measure for yourself. I have a set of HRC seats ordered so I will be able to compare them to the OEM seats soon.

It gets a lot more complicated but to sum up our discussion...
-The HRC springs have less installed seat pressure then OEM and require less valve mass to prevent float. The Aluminum HRC Retainers help a lot.
-The OEM springs will go in to bind with any more lift then the OEM cams.
-You must use the HRC retainers with the HRC springs and if you run in to binding issues with the OEM seats you will need the HRC seats.
-The HRC cams require the HRC seats to prevent spring binding.
-You may be able to get away with the OEM seats but it would be wise to check for wear on the seats after 100 miles of hard running or so.
-If you dont have the Ti valves it would actually be better to run the OEM (thicker) seats as long as there are no binding issues to help add spring pressure and prevent valve float. This is especial true with a rev limiter above OEM.

There, I hope that all makes sense.

Neither had any info on the -700 spring part number but both guys said stick with the -000.

I am still waiting on one or two other sources that may be able to back this up (I love redundancy).

[thorsten]

As I mentioned before, don't worry about Seats.
I've got them here, at least for 10 Engines they should last.
And- you need the black marked springs .
The Yellow marked Springs do work only in conjunction with Ti Valves.
I have made ~ 18 Engines with that Setup:
Black marked HRC Springs
HRC Retainers
My Seats
Works perfect

[dstewart]

Originally Posted by thorsten

As I mentioned before, don't worry about Seats.
I've got them here, at least for 10 Engines they should last.
And- you need the black marked springs .
The Yellow marked Springs do work only in conjunction with Ti Valves.
I have made ~ 18 Engines with that Setup:
Black marked HRC Springs
HRC Retainers
My Seats
Works perfect

Which ones are black and which ones are yellow? Is that the difference between the -000 and -700 springs?

[irishaggression]

where the marking?

[thorsten]

Directly on the Springs.
Simple black paint on them.
Approx 10x10mm Area where they're marked with the paint.
On the Pic from Damom you're able to detect the black mark, upper right hand spring right side, 2nd and third windup

[dstewart]

Some notes, yellow stripe springs are OEM.

The HRC inner spring seat is the same thickness but has a 17mm OD (15mm for OEM) for the inner HRC spring. The HRC outer spring seat is the same as the OEM but has been ground from 1.52mm to 1.24mm thick. The thinner outer seat was to help with coil bind issues with high lift HRC cams. Both parts are steel.

[irishaggression]

nice work damon. I'll order these up just to be safe

[thorsten]

Some notes, yellow stripe springs are OEM.

SP2 Kit Springs are also yellow marked.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........................

My Cams have been unavailable here for 1.5 years, but now it seems they are available again.
But the Pricing ist hard ~ 1700 Euros( without VAT )
So I think Josh will be able to offer a way better pricing, and as far as I know the first Set of Prototypes ( to check manufacturing Quality) he will receive in 4 Weeks, direct Copy of my Cams.

The Specs:
Duration Intake/Lift: 270° / 12,35 mm
Duration Outlet/Lift: 264° / 11,90 mm

[irishaggression]

1700 euro = 2415 dollars + %20 VAT = 2800 dollars total
thorsten did you run the hrc seats with your cams also?

[thorsten]

Originally Posted by irishaggression

1700 euro = 2415 dollars + %20 VAT = 2800 dollars total
thorsten did you run the hrc seats with your cams also?

No - I did run my own seats, made from Cro-Mo steel.
The preload start,middle and endpressure aswell as max lift spring "on block" clearance was calculated from a buddy of mine, and they're perfect.
Half the costs of HRC, and I still have a couple of those seats.

[dalewrc30]

I have had quite a bit of interest in these cams of late ,so am getting another batch made,probably another 6 sets,of which 3 are spoken for.

The price is US$1350, less than the last batch due to the sudden drop in the value of our dollar, so now is a great time to get a set.
Theres no telling how long our NZ dollar will be as low as it is,having dropped from US$0.80 to US$0.53.

Feel free to pm me or email any questions.

Dale

[nik919]

helo to all

so the total cost for cam mod is:

US$1350 plus original cams

Honda VTR1000 SP1 & SP2 HRC spring, valve $63.54
Honda VTR1000 SP1 & SP2 HRC retainer, valve spring $199.72

total 1613$

plus shipping costs ~200 $


are those numpers and parts correct or im way off?

[dalewrc30]

The $1350 included the cost of return postage.The springs and retainers should only be around $35 postage.

Dale

[OB6D]

And then it got really, really quiet...

What happened?

[RC51Stunna]

That is hands down the most informative thread I have ever read on this forum.

It is a goldmine of information for someone trying to build their own RC51 motor....

Stunna

[dalewrc30]

An update on the cams...

Ran into a few issues which affected the time it took to get them finished, however they are all done.

I still have a couple of sets left unspoken for.As the kiwi has strengthened back against the $US,I've had to adjust the price and the remaining sets will be US$1450 incl postage.

Dale