Are you talking about the ignition coils that sit right above the spark plugs? If so, I wondered why these were not on our cutting edge (of it's time) race bike put out by HRC. For God's sake SUZUKI's had them at the time (SRAD 750 GSXR, and TL1000R's I think). Could these coils be fitted, what would the advantage be? More accurate ignition timing? Weight?
I would check coil output power to make sure they were the same. I will take some measurments of my stock plug wire cap and a set of CBR1000RR caps to see if they fit. I would have to get a wiring harness to get the plug ends to rewire the bike.
I would say that less wires more accurate spark and less wight for sure.
Other than weight savings, you would be better off building a custom harness with multiple grounds (common, ECU,etc) to relieve the amperage tension for a stronger spark (more power). The harness I made has 5 grounds for the stock ECU & my MOTEC harness has 3 grounds (much LESS wiring). That being said it would be nice to ditch the coils. Aren't the 1K rr's line coils quite a bit larger in diameter? I have 30.54mm (give or take a mm) for the RC51
Other than weight savings, you would be better off building a custom harness with multiple grounds (common, ECU,etc) to relieve the amperage tension for a stronger spark (more power). The harness I made has 5 grounds for the stock ECU & my MOTEC harness has 3 grounds (much LESS wiring). That being said it would be nice to ditch the coils. Aren't the 1K rr's line coils quite a bit larger in diameter? I have 30.54mm (give or take a mm) for the RC51
Cheers!
thanks for the information.
I will take them out and pair them up with the 1000RR ones to check size and fitness.
how can I get a Motec wire harness and how much do they cost?
Other than weight savings, you would be better off building a custom harness with multiple grounds (common, ECU,etc) to relieve the amperage tension for a stronger spark (more power). The harness I made has 5 grounds for the stock ECU & my MOTEC harness has 3 grounds (much LESS wiring).
Happy Holidays to youall! why does the 51 need 5/3 seperate grounds do they have to be grounded to seperate locations or can they be brought together and grounded in one location ie on one bolt somewhere?
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00/02SPy1/2?! in ongoing race prep:
Other than weight savings, you would be better off building a custom harness with multiple grounds (common, ECU,etc) to relieve the amperage tension for a stronger spark (more power). The harness I made has 5 grounds for the stock ECU & my MOTEC harness has 3 grounds (much LESS wiring). That being said it would be nice to ditch the coils. Aren't the 1K rr's line coils quite a bit larger in diameter? I have 30.54mm (give or take a mm) for the RC51
Cheers!
That measurement isn't that important as that is just the cover, what is important is the length from the bottom of the cover to the end and the diameter of the part that actually goes into the hole. I'm pretty sure you use the same size spark plug socket on the RC51 and the CBR1000RR so the holes should be the same ID.
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That measurement isn't that important as that is just the cover, what is important is the length from the bottom of the cover to the end and the diameter of the part that actually goes into the hole. I'm pretty sure you use the same size spark plug socket on the RC51 and the CBR1000RR so the holes should be the same ID.
Scott.. Yes & No.... You could cut the boot down, but the line coils I have seen (import cars) usually dont have much room to spare. You are right about the length though... I will be curious as to what Metal Scorpio finds out. OT: I posted the weight of your carbon fuel cap vs. the others.
how can I get a Motec wire harness and how much do they cost?
Metal.. you cant. You would have to make one to mate w/ the MOTEC. I should be more clear in my post my apologies. I was comparing the two different wire harnesses for my two different ECU's (Stock Honda ECU & MOTEC ECU) In the New Year I will FINALLY be posting a thread about the mods I have done to my bike (MOTEC included) but things are not quite done yet. But that is getting off topic, so in order to answer your question & rrr's question:
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why does the 51 need 5/3 seperate grounds do they have to be grounded to seperate locations or can they be brought together and grounded in one location ie on one bolt somewhere?
The 51 doesn't, but I incorporate it into the wire harnesses I build. It is a old trick that rally cars & the like have been doing for a while. Called the "grounding mod" or "earthing mod" some say it is "snake oil" some dont & have the dyno numbers to prove it. I learned it from a flat track engine builder who taught me a lot of what I know. The principal behind it is that multiple ground points will equalize the resistance and voltage, thus inducing a "cleaner" or "stronger" spark if you will. Now before all you boys & girls go running off to do this understand that the gains are not huge... on cars I have seen dyno #'s of 1-3 hp depending on the type of car ( mostly Acura's & Subaru's ) also note this is well within the error of actual dyno's. Also on a 51 there is A LOT of grounding wires & you cant just go giving them multiple points to ground at. Case in point is any grounds that involve the ECU (Green w/ Pink / Orange wires) must be grounded seperately.. No I have NOT dynoed my 51 with this mod, but I build custom harnesses for all my bikes & they all have this mod incorporated. To me it is the logical thing to do & with all the work I put into my bikes why not....
Not the RC, but to give you an idea some recent pics in the middle of a wire harness build for my SV650:
The 51 doesn't, but I incorporate it into the wire harnesses I build. It is a old trick that rally cars & the like have been doing for a while. Called the "grounding mod" or "earthing mod" some say it is "snake oil" some dont & have the dyno numbers to prove it. I learned it from a flat track engine builder who taught me a lot of what I know. The principal behind it is that multiple ground points will equalize the resistance and voltage, thus inducing a "cleaner" or "stronger" spark if you will. Now before all you boys & girls go running off to do this understand that the gains are not huge... on cars I have seen dyno #'s of 1-3 hp depending on the type of car ( mostly Acura's & Subaru's ) also note this is well within the error of actual dyno's. Also on a 51 there is A LOT of grounding wires & you cant just go giving them multiple points to ground at. Case in point is any grounds that involve the ECU (Green w/ Pink / Orange wires) must be grounded seperately.. No I have NOT dynoed my 51 with this mod, but I build custom harnesses for all my bikes & they all have this mod incorporated. To me it is the logical thing to do & with all the work I put into my bikes why not....
Cheers for the info Cutaway i did the electric relocation rewire but put ALL my grounds together to one point so i take it this is bad for resistance/voltage resulting in a lesser spark? guess i'll have to open the harness back up and spilt em up
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00/02SPy1/2?! in ongoing race prep:
I have been thinking about building a harness but I am dragging my feet. Quick question though. What kind of connectors do you use? (DTM, Autosport...) Or do you re-use the stock connectors, and if so where do you get the pins/sockets? Thanks for the info.
so i take it this is bad for resistance/voltage resulting in a lesser spark?
No not at all.. Honda (& others) has been doing it that way for a while, so your fine. Remember this is just a trick if you will that happens to make sense to me & like I said I have seen the results. If you do choose to do this take the time & do it right. READ: Find what grounds what & go from there...
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What kind of connectors do you use? (DTM, Autosport...)
tiger, I use DTM & get them from Batts racing in VA:
they are the same size (coils and boots) but the stock sparkplug has the cap (top of the sparkplug) permanent attached. the on bootcoil needs a screw on type top sparkplug but NGK doesn not have a crossreference sparkplug similar to the RC51 one.
here's why, the threats on the stock sparkplugs are very thick, and they need to be due to the size of the piston and compression, compaired to any other bike.
so after 9am, i'm going to call NGK directly and find out if they can make me a sparkplug with the same specs of the RC51 set but with the screw in top for the new coils. they've done that kind of work for me in the pass for my CBR1000RR high compresion motor but they cost some $$$.
I'll keep you guys posted but as it stands, it might be possible.
are you sure that the NGK plugs have the top 'nub' permanently attached? Years ago I switched out the dist/wires on my turbo'd integra to run coil on plug, and I actually did the conversion using cbr929 coils. In the process we noticed that almost every plug we looked at had a threaded top that just needed some vise grips and alittle coaxing to get the 'nub-type' cap off. If anyone has any scrap ngk's they could do alittle experiment - unfortunately I don't.
are you sure that the NGK plugs have the top 'nub' permanently attached? Years ago I switched out the dist/wires on my turbo'd integra to run coil on plug, and I actually did the conversion using cbr929 coils. In the process we noticed that almost every plug we looked at had a threaded top that just needed some vise grips and alittle coaxing to get the 'nub-type' cap off. If anyone has any scrap ngk's they could do alittle experiment - unfortunately I don't.
Dude, I'm telling you...is permanent. no way to take those off. I know there's some that you could remove them but these are not those.
removing coils for on wire coil?
working on it for those who are into straight Crackhead diets for there RC51. LOL
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