I am still curious as to the maximum spark gap between stock and with the stick coils. It would be a nice pice of mind to know the amplitude was approximately the same.
I have the coil on stick mod and I have used it for almost 6 months with zero problems and the specs for the RC51, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR and many other Hondas have the exact same electrical specs for the coils and charging system. I have sold a few kits and had nothing but positive feedback, and if the RC51 old style coils were so good than why aren't any of th enew bikes using them.
A mild spark will still ignite the cylinder. Even if the primary voltage is the same, the question is, being the fundamental differences in how CDI and TCI work (see link for more info http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html ) is the intensity and duration of the spark at least equal to the CDI powering the stick coils? CDI works on delivering a capacitive discharge or zap the low impedance coil. TCI works by collapsing the magnetic field of a high impedance coil. They are both good systems, but how interchangeable are they. Will mixing the components have an effect on reliability of either the stick or the CDI. Collapsing a high impedance magnetic field produces back EMF that could be sufficient to damage the CDI over time.
At high RPM and high cylinder pressure (WFO) will the turbulence "blow out" the flame. A good eye can tell if the spark is hot or not. More then voltage measured by gap, how much energy or current and the duration is contained in the spark?
Maybe it’s completely compatible and there will be no ill side effects. The engineer in me wants to test and measure the differences is all. In no way am I trying to discredit the stick coils. I am very tempted to try them my self.
No disrespect but you seem to already have all of the answers so don't use the coil kits as it might blow up your bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstewart
Scott,
A mild spark will still ignite the cylinder. Even if the primary voltage is the same, the question is, being the fundamental differences in how CDI and TCI work (see link for more info http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Ignition/CDI.html ) is the intensity and duration of the spark at least equal to the CDI powering the stick coils? CDI works on delivering a capacitive discharge or zap the low impedance coil. TCI works by collapsing the magnetic field of a high impedance coil. They are both good systems, but how interchangeable are they. Will mixing the components have an effect on reliability of either the stick or the CDI. Collapsing a high impedance magnetic field produces back EMF that could be sufficient to damage the CDI over time.
At high RPM and high cylinder pressure (WFO) will the turbulence "blow out" the flame. A good eye can tell if the spark is hot or not. More then voltage measured by gap, how much energy or current and the duration is contained in the spark?
Maybe it’s completely compatible and there will be no ill side effects. The engineer in me wants to test and measure the differences is all. In no way am I trying to discredit the stick coils. I am very tempted to try them my self.
Easy Scott,... He's just got things he's wondering about... Natural...
Granted, had I thought of it(Remembered I had it ) I would have done a before and after spark test...
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No disrespect but you seem to already have all of the answers so don't use the coil kits as it might blow up your bike.
What's the matter Scott.. a little over your head? Or are you just bitter about all the time lost turning down the NGK plugs when you could have used the Denso plugs listed in the service all along?
What's the matter Scott.. a little over your head? Or are you just bitter about all the time lost turning down the NGK plugs when you could have used the Denso plugs listed in the service all along?
Not even close, and as the plugs go nowhere does it say in the parts fiche that the ends unscrew and it dosen't matter for myself and others that want to run NGK which you have to turn them down and I got paid to do ever set so no waste of time for me.
CDI and TCI are different but maybe the higher Ohms Spark Plug Coils do convert the CDI Ignition Voltage. succesfully
What I know from some close up Pics from last year.
Duc 999 OEM has spark Plug Coils, the race Bike had the " old fashioned" Ign. Coils mounted (dunno if DCI or TCI ).
I've read a lot about those both Systems , it seems that the CDI is to prefer at high Compression, but you need a accurate Ign.-Timing .
Well I've followed this thread from the beginning & I did the mod a few months ago using CBR954RR3 coils at the same time as the full akra & the Thorsten type airbox etc. The bike made great power on the dyno (much more than was expected) so for me that means its OK.
Nick
Well I've followed this thread from the beginning & I did the mod a few months ago using CBR954RR3 coils at the same time as the full akra & the Thorsten type airbox etc. The bike made great power on the dyno (much more than was expected) so for me that means its OK.
Nick
Hey Nick,
What's this> "CBR954RR3", OR Did you mean to say CBR954RR 2 coils or?
I've got a dumb question here BUT Did you get a Custom map made? Are you running a Power Commander III USB or III-R... Or even better yet the "Motec"
+1 with... dstewart
Peace Maverick
__________________
IF You are Not a Member of and You do NOT Support the NRA, then as (uncle Ted) says: "You are NO friend of mine!" Please Also support Your Local State Shooting Org. as well! I support the VSSA and the VCDL too.
USA: OUR 2nd Amendment Right "We HAVE the Right to Keep andBear Arms"
What's this> "CBR954RR3", OR Did you mean to say CBR954RR 2 coils or?
I've got a dumb question here BUT Did you get a Custom map made? Are you running a Power Commander III USB or III-R... Or even better yet the "Motec"
+1 with... dstewart
Peace Maverick
I did mean RR3 - that is 2003 CBR900 (basically the same as the RR2 but with different paint & modified steering head bearings to address stability issues some people had)
I did get a custom map done & I'm using a PC111R (Motec would be pointless for the road & way beyond my limited finances anyway with other bikes to support)
I will post the chart when my scanner is sorted but I dont really see its that relevant (other than for bragging rights - not for me I'm afraid)
I dont expect anyone will believe the power it makes anyway - I took some convincing & the guys on the dyno wanted to know what was in the motor.
Rode it on Saturday & I now understand what the attaction is - its a twin for riders who prefer 4 cylinders! Lots of top end & no vibes.
Will post the chart asap & anyone who wants a copy of the map is welcome.
Nick
I did mean RR3 - that is 2003 CBR900 (basically the same as the RR2 but with different paint & modified steering head bearings to address stability issues some people had)
I did get a custom map done & I'm using a PC111R (Motec would be pointless for the road & way beyond my limited finances anyway with other bikes to support)
I will post the chart when my scanner is sorted but I dont really see its that relevant (other than for bragging rights - not for me I'm afraid)
I dont expect anyone will believe the power it makes anyway - I took some convincing & the guys on the dyno wanted to know what was in the motor.
Rode it on Saturday & I now understand what the attaction is - its a twin for riders who prefer 4 cylinders! Lots of top end & no vibes.
Will post the chart asap & anyone who wants a copy of the map is welcome.
Nick
just a note of interest,the Denso's with the screw off cap come gapped at .8mm.the standard gap on the rc is 1.1 mm. so don't forget to gap them or you may not be getting full benifit
I like this idea. Think i'm gonna adopt it. Wonder if these could do. They're VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda etc and like 30 Euro's new. Should be easely obtainable...
Ohw well:
It has 4 pins:
1-Power to primary
2-Ground for build in power output stage (POS)
3-5V DC signal from ECU to control POS switch
4-Secondary ground
Thought it would maybe be possible to supply 5V Vref to no. 3, then ground no. 2 through the MicroSquirt.
The standard stuff on the RC works different. The ECU controls timing and there's two wires running from it to the CDI amplifyer box, which i guess are cylinder #1 and #2. But i don't know if that's a 5V signal, but, if so that might work i guess. (CDI box dropped since it's functions are build in to these coils?) I dono...
I have been looking at this thread with great interest. I'd like to try thus on my VFR but am wondering if I need to insgtall some sort of resistor, or amplified box, or can I just swap out my old can coiuls for the stick coils, as all of you have done with your RC's...(My VFR is part RC afterall, I did graft on the RC-51 tail section to her). I now return you to your previously programmed show!
I would imagine that you could do the same to the VFR as it has the same type of coil set up as the RC. The newer VFR's also use the stick coils, I believe from 2003 onward.
I would imagine that you could do the same to the VFR as it has the same type of coil set up as the RC. The newer VFR's also use the stick coils, I believe from 2003 onward.
Cool, thanks for the info!!! I just might try this mod this coming winter.
Natural...
) I would have done a before and after spark test...
Linear Mode
