Is health a product or a resource

[RockyMt]

Gee, couldn't find any of sean penn shaking hands with him, or how 'bout cindy shaking hugo chavez's hand? Wait a minute, I may be ablle to dig up a French Govt. contract selling laser guided bombs, anti aircraft missles and chemical weapons to Baghdad a few months before the US invasion. Yeah, gotta love them frogs........

-Rocky-

[ZeroGara]

Chavez will go down in history as one of the most important leaders' of 21st century. What makes him more popular than the usual leaders is that he becomes more and more popular as his term progresses and peoples' standard of living keep improving.
If he can only shut down all the US corporate/oil propaganda machines advocating lies about him he could be even more effective, but it is hard to fight against the interests of foreign oil companies and for the rights of native working people whose land and oil was ripped off of them for decades.

Originally Posted by RockyMt

Gee, couldn't find any of sean penn shaking hands with him, or how 'bout cindy shaking hugo chavez's hand? Wait a minute, I may be ablle to dig up a French Govt. contract selling laser guided bombs, anti aircraft missles and chemical weapons to Baghdad a few months before the US invasion. Yeah, gotta love them frogs........

-Rocky-

[RockyMt]

Keep drinkin' the cool-aide cindy, just a few more sips should do the trick......By the way, if we start a PayPal account here for a ONE WAY flight to the garden of Eden you know as guatemala, will you go?
Maybe you'll let me pack yer luggage? Both yer mommies must be proud of how their homeschooling turned out...........

-Rocky-

[ZeroGara]

Rocky, I think it is time to come out of the closet and admit to everyone your passion. You always, have to have the last word on any thread I have ever subscribed to, you turn everything into a personal issue, now you talk about packing my luggage and buying me a ticket to the tropics..... it is escalating.

You have a crash on me, and I'll have to admit most of you closet homosexual fascists when you say "I want to f@ck progressives, socialists, communists, anarchists, etc" you really mean it literally. It is a harbored sexual fantasy.

I told you in an other thread to seek professional help, you live in a good area to locate such treatment. I most likely am bound to keep ignoring you but you are so pathetic I can't hold myself to sympathize with your problematic existence.

Don't try to tell us that you leaving from a rural part of an other part of the country and moving to the bay area does not have a motive in fulfilling your sexual fantasies.
Also that picture of yourself you sent in a private message was a fine gesture but as to your question, No, you don't look like Marilyn Monroe. keep trying!

[RockyMt]

Don't give up yer day job cindy........(or is it cashing yer "stimulus check")

-Rocky

[vfr4]

Hi Guys,

Help me to understand how things work on your side of the atlantic...

Whats the average wage?

How much tax etc would you pay on it?

How much would a good level of health insurance cost and is it tax deductible?

Cheers,
Al (Scotland)

[ZeroGara]

Let's say the averaging working person makes $35k, even though that official averages may seem higher when taking into account all the zillioners in the US paying little or no tax.
About 15% of it goes to various levels of government while from the rest 5-8% goes to sales tax. Food is a little less, fuel, alcihole, and tabaco is much higher. So in reality it is above 20%. Sales tax is a little different than VAT, as VAT can only be deducted once, while one item can be resold 5 times and pay tax each time on the sale value.
An average health insurance if purchased individually for a family of four in good health to begin with, and with non risky occupation, may pay around $3k a month. Where if a large employer was to provide this same coverage it may cost $400 to the employer and $200 for the employee. Please correct me.
Very few people in the US buy health insurance on their own, except for well to do self employed people who do not provide any insurance for their employees. Things change when occupation is considered a high risk (truck/lorry driver, construction, marine, etc.) or a pre-existing condition can be found before coverage. If you smoke or ride a bike it may even get uglier. Many in recent years had to give up their motorcycle license to maintain coverage.
Also, you have to be a hell of a good book-keeper when dealing with doctors and hospitals to get refunded or gave bills paid, and then not all. By the time your family health crisis is over you have become an expert on coverage, unnecessary treatment and care, you have developed negotiating skills similar to a UN crisis intervention diplomat, and for months you have to deal on a daily basis with remaining delayed billing that wasn't packaged in, renegotiating with claim assistants to verify this was from a single incident and not an other one, etc. etc.
So, the next time you cut your hand, you think twice before you demand it gets reattached or stick a band-aid on the remaining arm and seek disability.
If by any chance you develop cancer from worrying too much about such crap, you take the blue pill then jump off the highest roof in town. That's american for "take an aspirin and call us tomorrow" that you get from the NHS.
The good responsible citizens who are self organized and disciplined as RobSC mentions are the subservient androids who have been terrorized by the nazi government to operate under this lunatic system and even defend it! The rest of us are like rebels to the BORG, enemies of the state.

"God bless the queen ........... moron,..... screaming"
SP song dedicated to all comrades in Scotland

[vfr4]

So...

$35000 less:

$5250 or 15% tax deducted at source
$2400 or 7% insurance paid by employee

$7650 or 22%% total deductions plus whatever you want to add on for other taxes, say 25-30% total?

Interesting...

[robfromsc]

Originally Posted by ZeroGara

R
You have a crash on me,

Spell check must be on the fritz in la-la land

[ZeroGara]

Originally Posted by robfromsc

Spell check must be on the fritz in la-la land

Or it could be up your rear end, while your head is up rocky's, which leaves Nero out of the threesome.

If you are not willing to participate with relevant information your pathetic attempts to disrupt anyone else's discussion on anything you feel obliged to have an opinion, despite how far off reality that is, is just disrespectful to anyone and everyone here.
Anyone trying to reveal your beloved fascist state for what it really is instead of debating the issue you blow smoke and personalized attacks to cover it up. Not only it is not working I assure you, it reveals your true nature.
So, keep it up!

[RockyMt]

Al, as in EVERY other post by cindy, his "facts" and "statistics" would vaporize under the light of scrutiny. But as always, cindy has taken up the "side" of the downtrodden serfs, who in cindy's world are grossly underpaid and if by chance actually seem be enjoying a healthy standad of living, are only doing so by being Nazi zombies who have been brainwashed by their corporate captors. Must be exciting in yer world there cindy, sort of like "Le Mis" on stage every day. Yet the rest of us go on with our life, raising well rounded productive children, who despite all odds, seem to enjoy their existance in this hell on earth known as America. By the way, MY personal experience with private health insurance (Blue Cross) has been exemplary, I unfortunately needed major, potentially LIFE SAVING surgery a few years ago, NEVER ONCE was I denied ANY type of procedure, be it diagnostic tests, drugs, 2nd or 3rd opinions, surgery, ANYTHING. The bill for my total treatment reched almost $300,000. and my "out of pocket" expenses were less than $4,000. I recieved the highest level of care imagineable, and NEVER had Blue Cross balk at a payment. My family has had several situations over the years (with a wife, 2 sons and 2 daughters, all active in various sports, including motorcycles), the random, unexpected ER room visits are inevitable...) and the level of care and concern were faultless. Saying that, I'm sure others will have personal horror stories, but as with any free market enterprise, health care/coverage has a lot to do with how much YOU as a consumer are willing to take responsibility to know your rights, and do your homework in shopping for coverage and caregivers. Sure, I could have done what many in my country do, and figure, hell, if I get sick, I can just walk into any hospital and they have to treat me. True, to an extent, but don't bitch and moan when you feel you don't get the quality of care you feel you "deserve". Many, many of the "un-insured" in America could actually be covered, but they choose not to, just as many drivers choose not to pay for insurance. (pass the buck AND BILLS onto those of us who are responsible enough to plan ahead) And to that, I'm sure cindy will chime in about how "they don't make eough money to pay for it". If that's the case cindy, do what I did for 15 years when I was younger, WORK TWO JOBS! Don't piss and moan about how "The Man" is keeping you down, get off yer ass and WORK. A man far wiser than I (easy to be!) once said, "success is 90% perspiration and 10% inspiration".But that's not nearly as much fun as being a real life "anarchist" like cindy, a modern day Robin Hood, breaking store windows for the "peoples revolution" and living in yer bourgeois parents basement.....

-Rocky-


CLINK!

[RockyMt]

Originally Posted by ZeroGara

Or it could be up your rear end, while your head is up rocky's, which leaves Nero out of the threesome.

If you are not willing to participate with relevant information your pathetic attempts to disrupt anyone else's discussion on anything you feel obliged to have an opinion, despite how far off reality that is, is just disrespectful to anyone and everyone here.
Anyone trying to reveal your beloved fascist state for what it really is instead of debating the issue you blow smoke and personalized attacks to cover it up. Not only it is not working I assure you, it reveals your true nature.
So, keep it up!

Speaking of "revealing true nature", seem's like EVERY post by you 'n gag has some homoerotic reference in it, (always something in someones ass....) No worries cindy, we already knew where YOU were coming from.....

-Rocky-

[nero]

Originally Posted by ZeroGara

Or it could be up your rear end, while your head is up rocky's, which leaves Nero out of the threesome....

Zero,
I don't remember ever insulting you here at Speedzilla. Does your remark above mean we're not friends anymore ?
I'd just like to know if & when I can take the "gloves" off with you.
Lemme know.
Nero

[RockyMt]

-Rocky-

PS. Be careful, he's a revolutionary don't-cha-know.......he may T.P. yer house and put shaving cream in yer mailbox........

[robfromsc]

Its so typical. He can't even take the slightest joke without resorting to name calling. I never called you names. My 5 year old can come up with better retorts than that.

Since you went there....

Your a close minded fool, and the most dangerous of them all, your so narrow minded that you seem to think your not. Your views are so singular that you can't see the forest for the trees. When some one questions you in the slightest you spin off like a buffoon. You think that anyone with a different idea than your is wrong, and typical to fashion you resort to petty insults. You cannot come up with a real argument so you either toss back what you've been taught or you spit blood and ashes. You cannot think on your own. But still you think you know it all, and I'm sure you'll have a nifty comeback insulting me personally. Everytime you speak, you prove my point.

You have no argument. Healthcare isn't some gold apple available to the elite. I'm by no means wealthy but still I've managed to have coverage my adult life. I've had to work for it and make choices but so what. I have a pre-existing condition, I have colitis, had it since I was 17 and I'm now 2 weeks from being 38. 21 years of coverage. Out on my own at 17, never had the govt or daddy to suck off of. I own a small struggling business, pay for everything myself. Sometimes you have to make the choice between smokes beer and bling and take care of yourself and family. Its a cause and effect disorder that your ilk suffer from.

Grow up, stop waiting for daddy to fix it and grow a set.

Clink clink dick.

[Area 51]

We've all told him that. It doesn't seem to sink in.

[Area 51]

Originally Posted by nero

I'd just like to know if & when I can take the "gloves" off with you.
Lemme know.
Nero

Better ask Rocky for permission. You are talking surgical gloves, right? Just a guess but I think he'll be jealous as hell.

[nero]

Originally Posted by robfromsc

Its so typical. He can't even take the slightest joke without resorting to name calling. I never called you names. My 5 year old can come up with better retorts than that.

Since you went there....

Your a close minded fool, and the most dangerous of them all, your so narrow minded that you seem to think your not. Your views are so singular that you can't see the forest for the trees. When some one questions you in the slightest you spin off like a buffoon. You think that anyone with a different idea than your is wrong, and typical to fashion you resort to petty insults. You cannot come up with a real argument so you either toss back what you've been taught or you spit blood and ashes. You cannot think on your own. But still you think you know it all, and I'm sure you'll have a nifty comeback insulting me personally. Everytime you speak, you prove my point.

You have no argument. Healthcare isn't some gold apple available to the elite. I'm by no means wealthy but still I've managed to have coverage my adult life. I've had to work for it and make choices but so what. I have a pre-existing condition, I have colitis, had it since I was 17 and I'm now 2 weeks from being 38. 21 years of coverage. Out on my own at 17, never had the govt or daddy to suck off of. I own a small struggling business, pay for everything myself. Sometimes you have to make the choice between smokes beer and bling and take care of yourself and family. Its a cause and effect disorder that your ilk suffer from.

Grow up, stop waiting for daddy to fix it and grow a set.

Clink clink dick.

Rob,
Were you talking to me ?
Nero

[robfromsc]

Originally Posted by nero

Rob,
Were you talking to me ?
Nero

You should ask that using your Rocky voice!

That was directed and cindy

[nero]

OKAY, using my cockflea voice, hehehehe.

Don't need more enemies here, what with Ahole51, sir gagsalot, zerobrains- anarky boy (aka cindy) and LeKiwi frogmeister...

( Rocky voice off )


Clink, clink...