Global Warming

[Le Kiwi]

No, I crack me up, actually.

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Originally Posted by DanST4

Scientific fact and serious information...

I would like to see an accurate, scientific response to the following facts shown in the graphs.

Not a link to some website about how horrible it is to deny the existence of "the human cause of global warming" - no, a scientific response to the fact that:

1. The temperature in the USA is steady now and has been steady for hundreds of years, and in fact for the past 30 years has actually decreased.

2. There is a direct coorelation between Solar Intensity and atmospheric temperature.

3. There is no direct coorelation bewtween CO2 levels and atmospheric temperatures.

4. At a point in the past - CO2 in the atmosphere was very low yet the atmoshperic temperature was very high (Medieval Warm period). And at another point CO2 was very high yet the atmospheric temperature was very low (the Little Ice Age).

5. The United Nations IPOC Predicted Global Warming Trend is completely inaccurate yet is used as a model for future warming predictions and in fact is considered the "Gold Standard".

Well try as your might to keep pushing the same scientists for hire propaganda material, it will keep getting the same response.
I search hyperlink of the graphs you posted to find out were you got this garbage you call "facts"

Not surprising it was Frederck Seitz that made this crap.
In case you guys missed this whole thread, Fredrick will say anything for the right price, he worked for RG Reynolds as a "scientist" that says cigarettes are perfectly healthy.
Now he went from master human biology major that knew more then 99% of all the medical specialists that said smoking is directly related to cancer, to master global geologists that knows more then 99% of all global geologists... ALL in the time it took for big oil to write him a check.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Seitz

So, sorry Dan, I'm not going to rebuttal fictitious "facts" with you.

[DanST4]

My Gobal Warming information comes from many sources. But this Dr. Seitz you mention, I looked at the link. Did you?

Cutter you must have some special powers or something to be able to condense a lifetime of achievement into three or four derogatory words! The link YOU supplied clearly outlines Dr. Seitz - the man you mention. He had a fantastically successful and productive career.

Apparently he said some controversial things near the end and, well, the CEO of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company says "the man is quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice".

However he was correct about second-hand cigarette smoke so perhaps he didn't lose any marbles.

The man had a stellar career. What the hell are you talking about? Take your meds cutter.

Frederick Seitz (born July 4, 1911) is an American scientist.

Seitz studied under Eugene Wigner at Princeton University, graduating in 1934. They invented the Wigner-Seitz unit cell, which is an important concept in solid state physics. In 1940, he published a prominent physics textbook, The Modern Theory of Solids.

Seitz has commented on the role of curiosity in the process of scientific discovery:

"Over a long time, things that people learn purely out of curiosity can have a revolutionary effect on human affairs." [1] He served as the president of the National Academy of Sciences from 1962 until 1969. From 1968 through 1978, he was president of Rockefeller University.

Shortly before his retirement from Rockefeller University in 1979, Seitz began working as a paid permanent consultant for the R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, advising their research program.

By 1989, the CEO of R.J. Reynolds, William Hobbs, concluded that "Dr. Seitz is quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice." [2] However, in 1994, Seitz authored a report published by the George C. Marshall Institute, of which he was a founder and chairman of the board, entitled "Global warming and ozone hole controversies. A challenge to scientific judgment." In a broader discussion of environmental toxins, he concluded "there is no good scientific evidence that passive inhalation is truly dangerous under normal circumstances." [3]

Seitz continues to question whether global warming is anthropogenic [4]. He supports the position of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (OISM) on global warming and in an open letter invited scientists to sign the OISM's global warming petition. Seitz also signed the 1995 Leipzig Declaration.

Seitz is also critical of the view that CFCs are damaging to the ozone layer [5].

Positions held

• Past President, National Academy of Sciences, U.S.A.
• President Emeritus, Rockefeller University
• Chair of Fred Singer's Science and Environmental Policy Project (SEPP).

The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine is a small research institute founded in 1980 to conduct basic and applied research in subjects immediately applicable to im*provements in human life — including biochemistry, diagnos*tic medicine, nutrition, preventive medicine, and aging.

The Institute is supported by donations and the independent earnings of its faculty and volunteers. It does not solicit or accept tax-financed government funds.

The Institute has six faculty members, several volunteers who work actively on its projects, and a large number of volunteers who help occasionally. It owns a 10,000 square foot building located in a rural setting about 7 miles from the town of Cave Junction in southern Oregon. This building includes a 5,000 square foot laboratory and library used for the Institute's research and educational work. This facility and a good complement of research equipment are the Institute's principal physical assets. The Institute has no debts and a policy of incurring none.

At present, work is proceeding on several specific pro*jects including the role of protein amides as molecular timers of protein turnover, development, and aging; the use of urine and blood profiling for predictive and preventive medicine; and the development of comprehensive materials for use in home school education.

The Institute is classified by the IRS as a 501(c)3 public foundation, so all donations are tax deductible.

[DanST4]

February 6, 2007

Global Warming: So What Else Is New?

by Patrick J. Michaels

Patrick J. Michaels is senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute and author of Meltdown: The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media.


The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released a slim summary last Friday trimming down thousands of pages of its massive overall Fourth Scientific Assessment on global warming, which will be released in May.

Hopefully the "Summary for Policymakers" will be an accurate distillation. Hundreds of scientists have been involved in the review process, and it's safe to say that means hundreds of bored scientists, because there's very little in it that's scientifically new. For example, it will report with increasing certitude that humans are responsible for most of the surface warming that began in the mid-1970s. That's been pretty obvious for years.

Graphs in Friday's summary will show that the rate of global warming has been remarkably constant -- about 0.18°C per decade -- since 1975. So, any news report that "UN panel says the planet is warming at an increasing rate" (and there will be many) will be dead wrong.

For over a century, it has been known that increasing the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide will eventually lead to a warming of surface temperatures, concentrated more in winter than summer, and more in mid and high-latitudes over land. That's exactly what's been observed for years, as is a global cooling of the stratosphere, another prediction of greenhouse theory.

More interesting, and, again, less newsy, is that the communal behavior of the dozens of computer models for future climate also predicts a constant (rather than an increasing) rate of warming.

That means that unless the collective conclusions of all of the models is wrong, we can confidently estimate a warming of about 1.8°C from 2000 to 2100. That's very near the low end of the range of projections released on Friday. The fact that the most logical distillation of observed and predicted warming yields such a modest heating should be reassuring, rather than alarming.

The new estimate for maximum rise in sea level, assuming a middle-of-the-road estimate for carbon dioxide changes, is going to be lower than in previous IPCC reports. The last figure I saw was around 17 inches by 2100, down 40% from their previously estimated maximum.

A small but very vocal band of extremists have been hawking a doomsday scenario, in which Greenland suddenly melts, raising sea levels 12 feet or more by 2100. While this forecast enjoys no real support in the traditionally-refereed scientific literature, it is repeated everywhere, and its supporters are already claiming that the IPCC -- the self-proclaimed "consensus of scientists" -- is now wrong because it has toned down its projections of doom and gloom.

But the integrated warming of southern Greenland (the region that sheds ice) was much greater for several decades in the early and mid-20th century than in the last decade. In fact, with the exception of one year (2003), Greenland's recent temperatures aren't particularly unusual, nor is its rate of ice loss.

As measured recently by satellite, and published in Science magazine, Greenland is losing .0004% of its ice per year, or 0.4% per century. All modern computer models require nearly 1000 years of carbon concentrations three times what they are today to melt the majority of Greenland's ice. Does anyone seriously believe we will be a fossil-fuel powered society in, say, the year 2500?

In summary, what's not new in today's IPCC report -- that humans are warming the planet -- will be treated as big news, while what is new -- that sea levels are not likely to rise as much as previously predicted -- will be ignored, at least by everyone except the extremist fringe.

This article appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle on February 2nd, 2007.






How to Label Cato

Today, those who subscribe to the principles of the American Revolution--individual liberty, limited government, the free market, and the rule of law--call themselves by a variety of terms, including conservative, libertarian, classical liberal, and liberal. We see problems with all of those terms. "Conservative" smacks of an unwillingness to change, of a desire to preserve the status quo. Only in America do people seem to refer to free-market capitalism--the most progressive, dynamic, and ever-changing system the world has ever known--as conservative. Additionally, many contemporary American conservatives favor state intervention in some areas, most notably in trade and into our private lives.

"Classical liberal" is a bit closer to the mark, but the word "classical" connotes a backward-looking philosophy.

Finally, "liberal" may well be the perfect word in most of the world--the liberals in societies from China to Iran to South Africa to Argentina are supporters of human rights and free markets--but its meaning has clearly been corrupted by contemporary American liberals.

The Jeffersonian philosophy that animates Cato's work has increasingly come to be called "libertarianism" or "market liberalism." It combines an appreciation for entrepreneurship, the market process, and lower taxes with strict respect for civil liberties and skepticism about the benefits of both the welfare state and foreign military adventurism.

The market-liberal vision brings the wisdom of the American Founders to bear on the problems of today. As did the Founders, it looks to the future with optimism and excitement, eager to discover what great things women and men will do in the coming century. Market liberals appreciate the complexity of a great society, they recognize that socialism and government planning are just too clumsy for the modern world. It is--or used to be--the conventional wisdom that a more complex society needs more government, but the truth is just the opposite. The simpler the society, the less damage government planning does. Planning is cumbersome in an agricultural society, costly in an industrial economy, and impossible in the information age. Today collectivism and planning are outmoded and backward, a drag on social progress.

Market liberals have a cosmopolitan, inclusive vision for society. We reject the bashing of gays, Japan, rich people, and immigrants that contemporary liberals and conservatives seem to think addresses society's problems. We applaud the liberation of blacks and women from the statist restrictions that for so long kept them out of the economic mainstream. Our greatest challenge today is to extend the promise of political freedom and economic opportunity to those who are still denied it, in our own country and around the world.

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Originally Posted by DanST4

My Gobal Warming information comes from many sources. But this Dr. Seitz you mention, I looked at the link. Did you?

Cutter you must have some special powers or something to be able to condense a lifetime of achievement into three or four derogatory words! The link YOU supplied clearly outlines Dr. Seitz - the man you mention. He had a fantastically successful and productive career.

Apparently he said some controversial things near the end and, well, the CEO of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company says "the man is quite elderly and not sufficiently rational to offer advice".

However he was correct about second-hand cigarette smoke so perhaps he didn't lose any marbles.

The man had a stellar career. What the hell are you talking about? Take your meds cutter.

A stellar career?
He hit his prime in 1940 for Christ sake, he is 96 years old.

Even the tobacco companies called him called him old and senile 11 years ago, they hired him because he was probably the only dope that would side with them.
Now he is suppose to be the spokesmen for debunking global warming?
I doubt the man can fart without shitting his pants, let alone challenge majority of the other scientists that disagree with him.
I was being extremely nice before with the link, but here is the exposed version of the man.
The things he does could choke a maggot.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html


I have a assignment for you people, find a scientist that isn't funded by big oil, or worked for a tobacco company to support your views and I will hear them out.

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The Indisputable Corruption of Frederick Seitz,
Disgraced, Malignant,
And the Conspiracies he has been involved in.




Background:
Frederick Seitz applied to RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company for work in 1978. His proposal was to oversee the medical research grants given out to worthwhile research projects. However, unknown to the public, tobacco companies had discovered for certainty that their products had health damage as early as the 1950s. They had concealed the health damages from the customers, and fended off all health claim lawsuits for 20 years by the time Seitz began working hand-in-glove with them. One might be inclined to give Seitz the benefit of the doubt, but the evidence does not allow this. Cigarette smoking kills people and cause a long list of other health problems. The tobacco companies knew that through their own suppressed research -- to engage Seitz to discover what they already knew was a waste of money, and they might as well confess to the newspapers if they believed they were hiring an honest man. Since they believed that Seitz was going to help them continue a coverup that had succeeded for 20 years already, we are compelled to believe that private discussions covered the true nature of Seitz's employment.

For a certainty, either Seitz was incredibly incompetent as a medical researcher, or else he was corrupt, because the diligent research of the secret tobacco laboratory investigations found health damage from smoking, and eventually laboratories outside the tobacco industry also did so without any funding money from the tobacco companies. The ONLY research which was unable to find any significant health damage by cigarettes was outside public laboratories who took tobacco payoff money, and Seitz directed the payoff money to these labs.

Frederick Seitz directed the spending of over $45,000,000.00 of RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company medical research money.

With that much money to pay qualified scientists and doctors, there can only be one explanation why no health problems were ever discovered by Seitz's research teams -- he sought people who would not look hard for health damage, and he paid them very well to not look hard (normally $3 million per lab over six years). He kept in contact to see that research money was spent where it would do the least good. He chose projects that looked in places where there was nothing to find.

Eventually a Canadian laboratory not funded with tobacco money came up with results that could not be discredited and could not be bluffed out of publishing the results. From that moment the tobacco industry changed plans to attack regulations as the result of uncertain "junk science".

Seitz's medical cover-up operation was no longer useful, and it was scrapped. but Seitz soon reinvented himself as a crusader against the FDA and government "junk science" regulations.






The Cold Hard Facts: Frederick Seitz was once credible and famous. He was once President of the National Academy of Sciences, an organization which has repudiated Seitz's counterfeit NAS anti-Kyoto petition fraud. The reason that RJ Reynolds tobacco company bought Seitz was that his reputation was worth the money they agreed to spend. A "nobody" would not help them conceal the murders which they were premeditatedly engaged in conducting, falsifying the true state of medical knowledge of the DEADLY dangers of their hazardous products.

The evidence which convicts Seitz in the tobacco corporate serial murders numbers a collection of 40 million pages, or 4 million whole documents, online by court order after conspiracy trials conducted by 46 of the 50 US states Attorney Generals. Nobody can ever be sued for libel by using these public documents which have passed due process of law in court trials once already.

From 1975 through 1989, Seitz was visibly associated with tobacco payments, but after 1989 his connection goes under cover. From the records unearthed we know the many criminal conspiracy methods the tobacco companies used to hide payments to covert agents, including using lawyers as intermediaries to make all the contacts and deliver the payoffs because they could refuse to testify in court under "attorney-client" priviledge. A multi-layered game of pretenses was used by everybody to pretend that there was no financial ties between various culprits.




Bruce N. Ames Seitz and Singer are tied together, and to tobacco by secret files wrenched from the tobacco conspirators file cabinets, but not every key document or cancelled check has been recovered and published so far. By 1990 Seitz disappears from tobacco company public connections, but SEPP is born. Neither SEPP nor Seitz has ever gone on public record as to the date of Seitz first involvement with SEPP, but Seitz has been board member and vice-president going back as far as public records still existing are available.

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Convicted felon Sun Myung Moon has hosted "science conferences" with a hidden agenda for three decades. He spends the money so he can be photographed giving speeches to "important people", and increase his propaganda value to gullible followers who don't understand science yet fear and respect it. Moon picked up S. Fred Singer at some unrecorded time in the past, probably at one of these mock-science gatherings. In 1990 we have recorded evidence that Singer is president and director of a Moon front organization named Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy, located in a Moonie owned office building.

Singer has claimed that the moonies loaned him offices for a year, and gave a charity grant of $10,000 startup money for SEPP. That is a lie. Singer was located in that building for three years, and He, Singer himself, gave SEPP whatever money they needed to operate that additional front organ. The Washington Institute has been very generous to "president" or "board members". Here is an IRS document showing one year that another Washington Institute president gave himself $142,708 salary, a Singer-sized salary. A pal of Singer's, Gerhard Stohrer applied for tobacco money on Washington Institute letterhead during Fred Singer's term as president of the front operation.




Click on icon
Seitz-Singer-Ames
Think Tank Fronts A non-profit watchdog organization created an interactive database to illustrate the slippery schemes of ExxonMobil's criminal conspiracy to deceive about Global Warming in the same manner that the tobacco criminal conspiracy deceived and committed corporate serial murders. Seitz, Singer, and Ames all appear in the database as crooked scientists lying for money. I created a graphic using their software interface and saved it to disk to share with you readers. By using this link: http://stopexxon.unfortu.net/index.php?mapid=95, you can go online and explore further connections and people aiding and abetting this broad conspiracy to commit crimes against humanity and mass murder. Unfortunately, their database was far from fully up-to-date at the time I created these graphics. I have notified them of many missing links they need to add to make a correct picture of this criminal conspiracy. It is funded by other lung pollution fortunes, like Killer Koch Industries (Koch Oil), Richard Maniac Scaife (Gulf Oil), and a few snake oil fortunes like Microsoft, Murdoch (Fox News), Moon (Washington Times, UPI), Coors (John Birch Society), Olin (chlorine and Black Talon bullets), and Earhart Foundation (White Oil fortune).

While Fred Seitz's role is not as big as Singer's, the $45,000,000 diversion smokescreen he operated on behalf of the tobacco murderers is the most obvious, easiest to prove. By exposing the utter corruption of Fred Seitz, the think tank that is a central nexis in the Anti-Global-Warming science frauds can be defanged: the George C. Marshall Institute.

By permitting Fred Seitz to escape being taken to account for his involvement aiding and abetting corporate serial murders, he has been allowed to continue his cannibalistic predation on yet more people. Exposing Fred Seitz's conspiracy can undermine the credibility of the fake science that George C. Marshall Institute performs on behalf of POISON & POLLUTION paying clients, like ExxonMobil.




above Map 96,
below, adds Ames
Map 97


Steven J. Milloy
long history of tobacco
conspiracy crimes. Two more graphics are presented: George C. Marshall Institution is the starting point. Seitz performed a hatchet job on the EPA and United States regulators of poisons in a part of a broad offensive in 1993 and 1994. Seitz crafted a deceptive piece to undermine the public's confidence in regulatory science, at the same time that his partner, Fred Singer in SEPP, did so using the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution front organ. Examining George C. Marshall Institution, we find five corrupt science mouthpieces for pollution industry: Seitz shows eight front organs he has connections to, Sallie Baliunas shows six, Willie Soon shows five, Sherwood Idso shows five, Craig Idso shows four. In the second map we see adding Bruce Ames he only has three organs showing (one additional not shown) he is used by. Fred Singer has fourteen organs he can employ for science frauds and fourteen front operations can use him in return. Of course professional fees are charged for services rendered, but payments to Swiss bank accounts are not shown on these maps.

I have located more connections than the software that makes these graphics contains in it's database. These maps are preliminary, not complete. Steven J. Milloy, the junk pusher, is shown connected to the front operations of the rest of these principles, but has five more organs not shown besides the three here displayed. Interactive versions of these maps are available at the previously mentioned website: Map 96, and Map 97.




Sallie Baliunas
Willie Soon
allie Baliunas and Willie Soon are the next generation in mass murder deceivers. Along with Fred Seitz they created a counterfeit package, crafted to deceive that it came from the National Academy of Sciences, with a petition worded to deceive about it's ultimate use, and issued it from an Oregon State University minor association called OISM. With Seitz's history in the aiding and abetting of corporate serial murders, it is not surprising to find him operating on behalf of global warming polluter mass murderers. Anything he is associated with is likely to be corrupt, so no benefit of the doubt is attached to this science hoax. By examing the recent history of Balliunas and Soon we find they are as dirty as Seitz. We have the old history and the current history of the George C. Marshall Institute, and we find they are fraudulent. We find Fred Seitz involved in SEPP, with its history of false petiitions, like the Heidelberg Appeal, false science conferences like ICSE, Paris, 1993, and "Integrity in Science", Washington DC, 1993, and false science reports like the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, fraudulent "Science, Economics, and Environmental Policy: A Critical Examination A Research Report Conducted by the Alexis De Tocqueville Institution", and "the Epa and the Science of Environmental Tobacco Smoke".

A lot of the records were "sanitized", webpages yanked down, files shreaded, and organizations dissolved to erase the trails, but still there is plenty of paper/electrons trail catching Baliunas and Soon in corrupt conspiracies, taking dirty money from the meanest villians on earth in a plot to allow mass murder by weather chaos. They have taken Koch Oil money, Scaife's Gulf Oil money, Western Fuels Coal money, and ExxonMobil's money. Fortunately we have enough evidence to use as a battering ram to smash the Marshall Institute, and send key players fleeing for shelter. We have the old evidence and the new evidence to smash SEPP, and Alexis de Tocqueville Institution. With the evidence we have we can drive Becky Norton Dunlop out of public life. We have crippling evidence against Heritage Foundation, Townhall.com, and TechCentralStation -- enough so that they will be a very long time recovering, if they ever do.

We live in a society where a majority of the supreme court thumbed its collective nose at the constitution. The justice system is compromised by thorough corruption. A new form of justice is evolving -- global trials, with the whole planet involved, looking on, sifting the evidence. The evidence of science frauds and science hoaxes against Seitz, Singer, Baliunas and Soon is too strong -- they will be punished by their peers by being outcasts and universal objects of contempt. The evidence against the members of the network of collaborators is strong and more is pouring in. Science traitors will be banished. The Kochtopus is being dismantled -- SEPP/Singer is the entry into the Institute of Humane Studies, Atlas Institute, Locke Institute, George Mason University. Singer's corrupt AdTI actions burns the career futures for a cast of two dozen self-important betrayers. Baliunas and Soon are likely the key to prosecuting the TechCentralStation, and the AdTI criminal conspiracy of the Microsoft predatory monopoly anti-free-software scheme connects TCS to other felon front organs as well.

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Here are the Global Warming counterfacts (partial list):

• 1992 -- "Warning to Humanity" petition circulates, signed by 1,700 working CREDIBLE scientists.
• 1992 -- Oil, Coal, pollution-industries counter-attack at Rio conference, fake Heidelberg Appeal circulates with their funding, using their paid-science-traitors, like the documented corrupt Fred Singer, documented corrupt Fred Seitz, documented corrupt Bruce N. Ames.
• 1997-1998 -- hottest ocean temperatures ever recorded in human history.
• 1998 -- hottest year in recorded human history.
• 1998 -- 86% of all corals bleached, came 2 degrees from known heat-death of species, and 10 days away from known heat-associated digestion failure starvation deaths. No fossil record shows such massive simultaneous incident ever in global geologic history other than 5 mass extinction incidents.
• 1999 -- strongest super-cyclone (310km/h winds) in human recorded history hits Orissa, India. 1.9 million houses damaged or destroyed, 10,000 people swept out to drown at sea.
• 2002 -- Severe droughts on five continents simultaneously -- at one moment the crops to feed one sixth the human race are threatened by brutal killing weather.
• 2002-2003 -- Worst drought in Australia recorded human history leads to wildfires invading Austrialian capital city and burning down hundreds of city blocks. At one moment not long afterwards a 250 kilometer firefront threatened to engulf the entire largest city in that country, Sydney.
• 2003 -- More people displaced by flooding than any year in recorded human history, over twice the geographical area flooded than second-worst flood disaster year in recorded human history.
• 2003 -- 562 tornadoes sweep the USA in ten days -- largest swarm of tornadoes ever recorded in US history, almost 50% worse than previous historical record, and nearly three times worse than any May in US history.
• 2003 -- Largest hailstone in human recorded history falls in Nebraska, 18 inches diameter, "cannonball size" which denialists say is impossible according to THEIR understanding of physics. Canteloupe-sized, softball-sized, baseball-sized, golf ball-sized all fell in 2003 hell storms.
• 2003 -- Weeks of unrelenting pounding of constant storms finally break northeast US power grid, 50,000,000 utility customers blacked out in US and Canada. Indiana governor, Frank O'Bannon, dies of heart attack from stress of one declared sequential "state of emergency" after another. Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Toronto especially hit hard.
• 2003 -- Worst forest firestorms in Portugal's recorded human history, blamed on excessive heat and changed air currents denying rainfall.
• 2003 -- 20,000 forest fires in Russia, 16,000 of them before the heat of summer, the largest number in human recorded history.
• 2003 -- 1,400 heat-stroke deaths in Andhra Pradesh, India from sustained heat wave and delayed monsoon -- largest mass heat-killing in local recorded human history.
• 2003 -- 35,000 excess heat-stroke deaths across Europe, largest mass heat-killing in European recorded history.

http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/AdTI_Villians.htm
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Pelosi.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Seitz.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Sallie_Baliunas.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Richard_S_Lindzen.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Stohrer-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Hazeltine-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Heidelberg-Appeal.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Becky_Norton_Dunlop_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Confronting_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Walter_Williams_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Chrispeels.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Idsos.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html

[DanST4]

Real science there - serious professionals. Here's just a taste of the letter those serious 1,700 scientists signed, the serious letter about global warming that is. A pro-abortion, anti-Capitalism group of serious scientists!

1. We must stabilize population. This will be possible only if all nations recognize that it requires improved social and economic conditions, and the adoption of effective, voluntary family planning.
2. We must reduce and eventually eliminate poverty.
3. We must ensure sexual equality, and guarantee women control over their own reproductive decisions.

Serious HOT AIR at that science site! Nothing but a Left Wing Socialism site pretending to be a serious site of credible scientists!

More: The developed nations are the largest polluters in the world today. They must greatly reduce their overconsumption, if we are to reduce pressures on resources and the global environment. The developed nations have the obligation to provide aid and support to developing nations, because only the developed nations have the financial resources and the technical skills for these tasks.

[sburns2421]

I just posted another thread about Michael Savage possibly running for President, and a short interview with him. In it he talks about global warming and proposes an interesting question the GW devout might want to answer.

I'm paraphrasing:

What made the Earth warm out of the last ice age when humans were an insignificant influence?

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Originally Posted by sburns2421

I just posted another thread about Michael Savage possibly running for President, and a short interview with him. In it he talks about global warming and proposes an interesting question the GW devout might want to answer.

I'm paraphrasing:

What made the Earth warm out of the last ice age when humans were an insignificant influence?

We already went over this like 30 times already.
It's just a stupid propaganda saying engineered to make people think if there is a natural cycle, we can't add to the effects of it.

I don't think anyone's disagreeing with the earth having a natural weather cycle, but in no way does that mean our CO2 and methane production isn't effecting that cycle.



That Savage guy is just another self righteous sloganeer who caters to people who only listen to what sounds good without question.
He will only take away right side voters, So I hope he does run.

[cutter]

Originally Posted by DanST4

Real science there - serious professionals. Here's just a taste of the letter those serious 1,700 scientists signed, the serious letter about global warming that is. A pro-abortion, anti-Capitalism group of serious scientists!

1. We must stabilize population. This will be possible only if all nations recognize that it requires improved social and economic conditions, and the adoption of effective, voluntary family planning.
2. We must reduce and eventually eliminate poverty.
3. We must ensure sexual equality, and guarantee women control over their own reproductive decisions.

Serious HOT AIR at that science site! Nothing but a Left Wing Socialism site pretending to be a serious site of credible scientists!

More: The developed nations are the largest polluters in the world today. They must greatly reduce their overconsumption, if we are to reduce pressures on resources and the global environment. The developed nations have the obligation to provide aid and support to developing nations, because only the developed nations have the financial resources and the technical skills for these tasks.

LOL, just admit it, your junk science is dead, and your ideas about women enslavery is also the way of the dodo.

I do love how you highlight "obligation to provide aid and support"

But then support the war in Iraq because we have to free those people no matter how much it costs, kind of flip flopping are we not?

[Le Kiwi]

It's not really "flip-flop", more like "slip-crunch"...

[XFBO]

I just recently learned that even with 12 feet of snow falling in USNY the GW fanatics have both ends of the weather spectrum covered. If it's too warm in the winter, it's the direct result of GW.......on the other hand tho, if it drops to subzero temps and over 10 feet of snow, it, TOO, is direct effects of GW.

These guys will NEVER lose a debate with that plan. Amazing stuff here folks, if they get there way just watch your taxes keep climbing!

[Le Kiwi]

"Halllelujah !!" Yep, you've FINALLY seen the light Brother XFBO !!

It's ALL Bush's fault !!

The only good thing he did last year was sabotaging the front tyre of Rossi's bike to let Hayden win........

[sburns2421]

Originally Posted by Le Kiwi

"Halllelujah !!" Yep, you've FINALLY seen the light Brother XFBO !!

It's ALL Bush's fault !!

The only good thing he did last year was sabotaging the front tyre of Rossi's bike to let Hayden win........

The black helicopters also descended to mess with Gibernau's brake line so he would take out Capirossi.

[Le Kiwi]

...of COURSE ! I hadn't thought of that one....


Damned secret Government....

[cutter]

Originally Posted by XFBO

These guys will NEVER lose a debate with that plan. Amazing stuff here folks, if they get there way just watch your taxes keep climbing!

You still think there is a debate about if global warming is real or not?
I'm still waiting for a non big tobacco, or oil paid scientist to say it isn't real.

And I would love to hear about these mystical tax hikes that will destroy America, please share the links that show how one came up with those facts.

[RCrider51]

Originally Posted by cutter

You still think there is a debate about if global warming is real or not?
I'm still waiting for a non big tobacco, or oil paid scientist to say it isn't real.

And I would love to hear about these mystical tax hikes that will destroy America, please share the links that show how one came up with those facts.

Global warming is very real. There is absolutely no debate about that. The actual debate lies in the causes of global warming and the actual impact those causes have.

Until there is a concesus among all scientists, there will still be a debate. Just look at the IPCC findings from their newest, sexiest, most shocking report. They are reeling back their predictions on ocean levels and temperature changes. Wonder why that is? Scaring people into believing something is just as immoral and wrong as doctoring research for your own personal agenda or bank account. Do you really want to split hairs on who are the more "moral" scientists? I get frustrated when I hear about how wise and forward thinking these scientists are when their predictions are based on computer models that quickly become obsolete and inaccurate. Pro-gw scientists are just as swayed by peer pressure and larger research grants to manufacture inflated results. This gets swept under the rug because they are doing the right thing though

[RCrider51]

And I would love to hear about these mystical tax hikes that will destroy America, please share the links that show how one came up with those facts.

Do you have any idea how much the Kyoto protocols would have cost our nation? Not only in hard currency, but also in the amount of jobs we would lose as a result of economic downturn. Don't forget to mention that India and China would not be held to those same standards, thus hurting America's power in the world market.