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post #41 of 211 (permalink) Old 11-30-2007, 01:50 PM
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Just call Marc or Leigh. Tell 'em Super Dave said, "Hi!" Leigh will give you a short answer, and Marc will give you a really cool answer over 35 minutes. You'll learn a lot.

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post #42 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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OK, just a quick update. I've ordered up a set of Wiseco pistons today. I hope to have them in a week or so. Then the pistons & cylinders are off to Millennium.

Yes, I know everybody else usually goes with JE's but the guy helping me out with all this prefers Wiseco's. He's been doing this a very long time and I trust his judgement. YMMV and all that.

'07 SV650, '04 FZ1, '02 RC51, '97 XR400, '85 XR4Ti
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post #43 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 01:32 AM
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CP is first choice in pistons, Wiseco second, everyone else a distant third. You'll be happy with the the Wiseco, they measure dimensional tolerances in ten thousandths of an inch!

Too bad ignorance isn't painful
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post #44 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 01:54 AM
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Hey GPZ have you thought of sending your crank to falicon to knife edge the crank?

Also what company cleans injectors? Who did yours?
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post #45 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, we talked about it and while it would be very nice to get done, the budget won't allow it. Falicon does some very nice work.

As for the injectors, you could do what Super Dave suggested and get a cleaned & matched set from Factory Pro. Also RC Engineering out in Cali will flow test, clean, and flow test again for a before & after comparison.

A local shop did mine called Midwest Fuel Injection. however, they were not able to flow test them. Something about they where too small for their flow bench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redstar View Post
Hey GPZ have you thought of sending your crank to falicon to knife edge the crank?

Also what company cleans injectors? Who did yours?

'07 SV650, '04 FZ1, '02 RC51, '97 XR400, '85 XR4Ti
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post #46 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-08-2007, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Here's an update on what's going on. I dropped my heads off at my dyno / engine guy to get ported. We are going to use a local guy who does porting for him and he trusts him with the work. He isn't going to break the bank either. My wife is also starting to get a little concerned about how much all this is going to cost since we still haven't paid off '07's racing bill.

So currently, the transmission is still off at Fast by Gast. We expect that back this upcoming week. The cylinders and new pistons are hopefully on their way to Millennium getting set up. I dropped the cylinders off at the dealership (DGY Motorsports) and once the pistons arrive, they were going to ship them off.

I still need to put together the list of stock Honda parts I need such as gaskets, seals, and bolts. Alot of the bolts in the engine are one use only. So once you use them, you throw them away when you remove them. I know that the rod bolts and 4 of the case bolts are like that.

I'm also waiting on my bodywork to get finished. They are getting worked on by RoadRacePrep.com. I've seen they're work and it's nice.

'07 SV650, '04 FZ1, '02 RC51, '97 XR400, '85 XR4Ti
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post #47 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-09-2007, 08:23 PM
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Hey chuck
have you talked to Mark or Kyle at RRP recently? I've been trying to get ahold of Mark but he won't return my calls or emails.

Oh and check out my new little beastie!!!


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post #48 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-09-2007, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, actually Mark pm'ed me on CCS late last week. I guess they've been busy rewiring the shop and getting the paint booth ready to go.

Nice toy too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf44 View Post
Hey chuck
have you talked to Mark or Kyle at RRP recently? I've been trying to get ahold of Mark but he won't return my calls or emails.

Oh and check out my new little beastie!!!

'07 SV650, '04 FZ1, '02 RC51, '97 XR400, '85 XR4Ti
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post #49 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-09-2007, 09:53 PM
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New cases for an RC51 SP2 engine?

This looks like a good thread to post my first question on this forum. I've searched a bit and haven't found anything that totally answers my question, but engine building 101 might be what I need!

I have a recently purchased 2005 RC51 with 3500 miles but I just discovered the previous owner used a clip type master link (I know!!!) and evidently the bike threw the chain sometime before I bought it, because most of the countershaft cover mounts are broken.

I rode it only a few miles before discovering the problem. I didn't notice it during the pre-purchase inspection because it was mostly hidden by the plastic, and he had the CS cover on with the threads left and the busted castings were only visible after disassembling the cover and getting all the hoses out of the way. The bike otherwise runs great and appears perfect in every way, not a smudge. I'm also exploring legal remedies, but that's another story.

I'm looking for opinions here about how to best proceed on the mechanical side of this. The bike is otherwise in showroom condition. I know the motor will have to come out, I guess the only question is what goes back in, this one with a new crankcase set or a used motor off ebay. Regarding welding, I do a decent job with my TIG welder on aluminum but I don't think the cases can be welded becase so much is missing already. I'd basically be building case back up out of rod then have to re-machine it somehow. Probably ending up weak and ugly.

I'd like to put new cases on this motor since its such low miles, but aside from the obvious cost of cases and gaskets, what other parts will I need?

Would it be possible to swap the guts between cases without pulling the flywheel and alternator rotors? Would I need new rings etc on the pistons too?

I'm somewhat experienced as a mechanic and have an FAA Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics ratings, but the last time I split cases on a motorcycle was on my 1976 Kawasaki KX125!

Sorry about all the questions, but I hope there is somebody here online that has some experience that I may benefit from. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

NOTE ADDED IN 2012: Here's how I ended up fixing the bike:
http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/honda-rc51/63366-24-feet-welding-rod.html#post640008
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Last edited by 9hondas; 02-24-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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post #50 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-09-2007, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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It would be cheaper to buy another motor than to get new cases. Last time I checked, a set of cases are around $1,000. Plus all the work to swap the internal parts over.

I would think your best bet would be to try to weld up the bosses and re-tap them if possible.

Did the clutch work properly? Maybe don't worry about it until you have to.

BTW: That really blows that you got burned like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9hondas View Post
This looks like a good thread to post my first question on this forum. I've searched a bit and haven't found anything that totally answers my question, but engine building 101 might be what I need!

I have a recently purchased 2005 RC51 with 3500 miles but I just discovered the previous owner used a clip type master link (I know!!!) and evidently the bike threw the chain sometime before I bought it, because most of the countershaft cover mounts are broken.

I rode it only a few miles before discovering the problem. I didn't notice it during the pre-purchase inspection because it was mostly hidden by the plastic, and he had the CS cover on with the threads left and the busted castings were only visible after disassembling the cover and getting all the hoses out of the way. The bike otherwise runs great and appears perfect in every way, not a smudge. I'm also exploring legal remedies, but that's another story.

I'm looking for opinions here about how to best proceed on the mechanical side of this. The bike is otherwise in showroom condition. I know the motor will have to come out, I guess the only question is what goes back in, this one with a new crankcase set or a used motor off ebay. Regarding welding, I do a decent job with my TIG welder on aluminum but I don't think the cases can be welded becase so much is missing already. I'd basically be building case back up out of rod then have to re-machine it somehow. Probably ending up weak and ugly.

I'd like to put new cases on this motor since its such low miles, but aside from the obvious cost of cases and gaskets, what other parts will I need?

Would it be possible to swap the guts between cases without pulling the flywheel and alternator rotors? Would I need new rings etc on the pistons too?

I'm somewhat experienced as a mechanic and have an FAA Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics ratings, but the last time I split cases on a motorcycle was on my 1976 Kawasaki KX125!

Sorry about all the questions, but I hope there is somebody here online that has some experience that I may benefit from. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

'07 SV650, '04 FZ1, '02 RC51, '97 XR400, '85 XR4Ti
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post #51 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-09-2007, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpz11 View Post
BTW: That really blows that you got burned like this.
Thanks for the kind words and advice. It certainly took the wind out of my sails. Motorcycle folks are usually great people.

The clutch did work ok, but after I took it apart it was obvious that it was not a long term situation since one of the bolts was already bent pretty well from overstress.

I guess welding is a "freebie" anyway, the cases would be junk anyway, so why not try. Should I totally remove everything from the cases before welding them? I assume I'd want to at least have them bolted together to avoid warpage. Maybe I can machine some aluminum bosses out of aluminum rod to weld in and skim down on a milling machine or something.

Thanks for posting your pictures of your motor work, I think I'll be following a similar path.

At least I still have my 95' VFR to ride while I fix this mess!
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Last edited by 9hondas; 12-09-2007 at 11:36 PM. Reason: added a pic
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post #52 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-09-2007, 11:21 PM
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sorry for your trouble man, that sucks

on a side note that is the first time i have ever heard of a clip style link coming off really suprised to be honest


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post #53 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 03:04 PM
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Thumbs down

WOW CRAP!!
Hey 9hondas

Damn that SUX man, sorry to not only see and read this, but to think that some one is trying to get one over on you like this.... WTF...
I know you couldn't have bought that from a memeber here,..... Right...?

I'll be sending you a PM here later today, so don't forget to check...


Peace Jeff
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post #54 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-11-2007, 04:08 AM
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Got a question for you GPZ11,

What kind of stand did you use to pull the motor? From what I can read in the manual a standard rear stand won't work because the swingarm has to come loose.

I was thinking about fabricating a stand that bolts or pins into the footpeg holes. I thought I'd pull the pegs off the rearset and pin a stand mount in on each side somehow. Does anyone think that the weight of the bike being supported will overload the rearsets? I know they are probably designed to hande downward deflection and this would be loading them opposite of rider weight. As a second choice I thought I could use the rearsets mounts in the frame to make a stand.

Also could somebody give me a basic explanation of how Hondas mounting system in the frame works? It sure seems complicated with all the funky hardware, cautions about proper torque sequence, etc. I assume the idea is to get the motor into the frame without induced stress or mis-alignment, but I read it twice and so far don't understand the why yet.

Thanks!
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post #55 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-11-2007, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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I have a bike lift so the front wheel was held by the lift. I put a couple of jack stands under the frame just behind the motor. We then put a couple of scissor jacks under the motor. With the motor on the jacks, we ran a ratchet strap from the frame to a wall and used the strap to pivot the frame up and over the motor.

I'm sure Honda came up with the mounting system because the motor, frame and swingarm all have to line up and become one strong unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9hondas View Post
Got a question for you GPZ11,

What kind of stand did you use to pull the motor? From what I can read in the manual a standard rear stand won't work because the swingarm has to come loose.

I was thinking about fabricating a stand that bolts or pins into the footpeg holes. I thought I'd pull the pegs off the rearset and pin a stand mount in on each side somehow. Does anyone think that the weight of the bike being supported will overload the rearsets? I know they are probably designed to hande downward deflection and this would be loading them opposite of rider weight. As a second choice I thought I could use the rearsets mounts in the frame to make a stand.

Also could somebody give me a basic explanation of how Hondas mounting system in the frame works? It sure seems complicated with all the funky hardware, cautions about proper torque sequence, etc. I assume the idea is to get the motor into the frame without induced stress or mis-alignment, but I read it twice and so far don't understand the why yet.

Thanks!

'07 SV650, '04 FZ1, '02 RC51, '97 XR400, '85 XR4Ti
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post #56 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 12:28 AM
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Thanks GPZ, that's an interesting idea pulling the bike off the motor! I have a beam in my garage I might be able to do something similar with.
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post #57 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 02:21 AM
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I pulled the motor out from underneath the frame.

Just pull the oil pan, oil pick up, and bypass. This makes the botton of the motor flat.

I put a piece of 1x12 pine (soft wood) on my floor jack and brought it up to the bottom of the motor with the oil pan off. Lift the bike up and put jack stands under the footpegs. Disconnect everything, pull the motor mounts and swingarm then slowly let the jack down. The motor will lower out of the frame with a little wiggling and moving the floor jack a bit forward. Once the motors mostly free you can have a buddy lift the bare frame up (pivoting on the front tire) while you slide the jack and motor out sideways.

Once the motors loose of the frame its acually very easy to lift the frame over the motor. My wife actually performed this task while I slid the jack and motor out from under the frame. She just lifted the bike by the subframe up to her chest level. It rotates on the front axel nicely.

Put the motor back in the same way. The jack under the motor lets you lift and lower the motor easily to line up the mounting points.

WERA EX #41
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post #58 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 02:55 PM
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sounds fishy, sounds like this guy http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/rc5...-problems.html
anyone remember how pissy he got and how desperate he was to sell the bike rather than fix it? Does that sound like the guy who you bought your bike from? Hopefully you didnt pay for the bike like it was in new condition - or I'd go hunt the m'fer down.
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post #59 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 02:56 PM
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FS: 05 Rc51 (needs left crank case)
this was the thread where he gets pissy
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post #60 of 211 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roningsr View Post
FS: 05 Rc51 (needs left crank case)
this was the thread where he gets pissy

WOW! How'd I miss this... I didn't see anywhere, where he got pissy.. BUT WTH Man, why would anyone just GIVE UP like that! So easy?? Give me $5,000. and I count my loses... when you can buy a use replacement Engine so easy here/swap and be riding in a day, OH Well, to each their own....
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