Need info on 944 upgrade...

Hello all,
I'm new to the site and must say there is a load of good stuff here!

First off, I am suffering from a cracked frame on my '96 SS / CR. Ducati is making me a new one (which is GREAT) but its been a bitch not having my baby all summer long. Oh well, its a new frame!! Anyway, I was wondering about tricking out my 904 into a 944 (since the motor is not doing anything at the moment anyway).

What kind of issues (more heat, less clutch life, carburation probs, etc. etc.) would I be facing in doing this?
What kind of power increase might I enjoy?
How reliable is the change?
Who is the right manufacturer to go through?
How much might this cost?

Basically, I am looking for any and all info on this. Not sure if I will do it, but more power is something that is always a good thing! I love the bike and she is increadibly comfortable for me to ride all day every day.

Thanks in advance and may your weather bring you a ridable day!!!

~AJ


Modified by Kalaazar at 11:28 AM 11/23/2004

Really, I would suggest you to go for an ST2 engine replace...
By the way, if you wanna go through the upgrade, I believe someone in this board has done it succesfully. He can suggest you a good workshop in the States as well.
Besides the cc increment, I suggest to find ST2 cams, which deliver more hps and torque to my knowledge.
Good work,
Tino

Call Chris for ultimate HP.

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html

BCM sells a kit.
http://www.bcmducati.com/catal...ID=52

Going to the 944 is a very common upgrade for the SS. You usually also go with 11:1 compression pistons at the same time which helps a lot too. BCM in New Hampshire is the best I found (www.bcmducati.com) but lots of others avaiable. Cost was $800. It really also makes sense to go with 41mm FCR carbs at the same time rather than waste the time setting up your stockers. About $750 I think. Huge difference. I did my 944 about five years ago. About 15K miles on it. Simple install especially if you've got the engine out already. No reliability problems at all. Clutch is still stock. I really use mine more like a sports tourer rather than a club racer so that'll have an effect on reliability for sure. I dyno'd my setup at 88 HP and 70 ft lbs of torque but that was with some porting work too. If you went with individual 41 FCR carbs on malossi manifols, you can get to 92HP+

Ditto what 944SS said. I have almost the exact same setup and results.

Triple that. 944/ST2cams and 41's on long runners.
Just turned 44K on a BCM motor. I sport tour and beat the snot out of it (As per the Dr's instructions) 4-5 times a season on the track.

Lightweight wheels this winter.
dezmoduo

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by foggy123 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Call Chris for ultimate HP.

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html

BCM sells a kit.
http://www.bcmducati.com/catal...ID=52</TD></TR></TABLE>

Man, wish I had an extra 3 grand laying around.

You may want to change the cams and put in ST2 or 900ie cams in it, but don't bother looking for an ST2 engine to drop in. It's liquid cooled, you might have a problem there, last time I checked, an SS didn't have the plumbing for that.

Check these pages for more info on cam specs and valve specs for your particular engine.

http://www.moto-one.com.au/per....html
http://www.moto-one.com.au/per....html

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with it.

Definatly give BCM a call for the upgrade. Don't forget BCM also does some of the fastest motors and heads anywhere. I am sure a package would be available. To me the best setup for a carbed bike is Pistal 944 kit, short manifold 41mm's and BCM heads. that setup should put you in the 92-98HP range. Think of all the pesky 600 riders who won't even see you coming!

There's someone selling a Giacomto 944 kit on the old Ducati Index. Here's his web site to take a look: http://users3.ev1.net/~beebster/index/index.html

Just an FYI, heard the long intake runners are crappy. Might want to look into the shorter intake manifolds if you want more powa.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smakbiam &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just an FYI, heard the long intake runners are crappy. Might want to look into the shorter intake manifolds if you want more powa.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They're not "crappy", they just make more grunt. The shorter ones make more absolute power, but the long ones help to smooth the delivery and increase torque.

This may be a stupid question, but is it possible to bore the cylinders enough to just drop in the 944 pistons? I'm assuming that there just isn't enough cylinder material to be able to do it, otherwise we'd surely have heard about it. I've just never had the top end off the motor, so I don't know what the pistons are like from the inside.

I saw the Gia Ca Moto kit for sale, does it fit only the carb'd motors, or would it work in an injected model as well?

It is posible to bore the cylinders and have them replated. That is what Millenniun Coatings do. I think the charge is about $170 per cylinder and a set of Pistal pistons will run about $400. The BCM kit requires an exchange on your barrels which they send to Millennium for the rebore. The $800 charge from BCM is a pretty fair dealin my opinion since it is basically 1 stop shopping

Just to comment on the fitment question. I don't think the cylinders off a carbureted bike will fit on an injected bike because of the oil line difference if nothing else. The injected bikes have internal oil pathways, not the external lines of the older bikes.

Just to comment on the fitment question. I don't think the cylinders off a carbureted bike will fit on an injected bike because of the oil line difference if nothing else. The injected bikes have internal oil pathways, not the external lines of the older bikes.


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I think,(do your own research) that the main difference between the old and new cylinders is just the drain back of the oil from the top end. I bet they're interchangeable.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marvin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think,(do your own research) that the main difference between the old and new cylinders is just the drain back of the oil from the top end. I bet they're interchangeable.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am not 100% sure about the older heads fitting on the newer bikes, but I do know the newer bikes don't have this fitting for the external oil lines to connect to. Maybe it can be blocked off, but I doubt it.

the old cylinders are oil/air cooled. if you look at them next to a injected cylinder the wall thickness is much greater because there's an oil jacket around the bore. they aren't quite the same as the water cooled ones tho, but similar. see all the welch plugs on the tops - they plug the oil jackets. we used to get them leaking - a real pain. altho 750 used to leak too i'm sure, and they didn't have oil returns.

the later ones are air cooled only. the fins are much longer even though the external size is the same because the wall is much thinner.

they both still use the same oil passages to feed the heads. i never really worked out how they controlled the oil pressure to the heads on the old ones given there was a dirty great bit leak on the sides - maybe they don't need that much pressure up there.

if you were going to run them on a late engine i'd figure up some way of running the oil back into the engine, otherwise it'll run hotter than desired and over heat the oil probably. that bit's just opinion.

And a heck of a good opinion, at that! :-)

Yeah... it's kinda hard to say what would happen without actually trying it out. Bruce of BCM told me the new style is more cooling effecient for the entire cylinder, as the area the oil occupies would allow trapped air.

I lean to think that there wouldn't be much difference to have the oil drain or to simply plug it off so long as the oil return on the bottom of the cylidners are identical.

Also, I suspect that the drain lines are on the return side, not on the pressure side, so they have nothing to do with the pressure in the heads...

chris