92 750 - something seizing, won't turnover

[doocatiboy]

Bike sat a few weeks after running for a few thousand miles (since
I took ownership) w.no problems. Go to start it and there's a robust
click sound, kind of similar to a loose battery connection but
much louder and stronger.

I know for certain my problem is not battery or wire related
If I continually thumb the starter the + starter lead overheats
and actually melts the rubber boot. Not cool. Something is restraining
the starter - or a gear on which it acts - and this is why I believe
something is seizing. Not sure if related to the sprag (which I
don't even know is!) or the flywheel or what.

Tried roll starting in gears 1-3 to no avail. All this would do is
lock the rear at clutch pop to a skidding halt. I have roll started
this bike many times prior with no problem so something wasn't allowing
roll starting now. Even tried jumping it directly to the starter to
eliminate anything higher up in the chain (e.g. solenoid, etc).

Here's how I got it started, thinking something is seized and
needing to be unseized, given no tools or shop access:
-1st gear, grab handlebar and grab rail
-roll bike firmly back and forth a few times until the rear wheel
turns (a la turning manually to find TDC when doing valves). This
required some downward pressure on the rear.
-now she started under normal conditions, with the seizure
evidently freed

Bike subsequently starts fine and behaves during errand running on
same day.

Any thoughts/ideas as to what's seizing on me, and why? Is it
clutch related? Flywheel? Sprag? Hydro-locked?

Thanks for your help.

[edwyun]

some ramblings:

when you thumb the starter, do you hear a slight whirring sound near the left cranckcase? if so, the starter sprag prolly needs to be fixed.

what weight oil is in the bike and what were the temps when you tried to start it? if it's too cold, a thicker oil may not flow enough for you to start the bike (at least that's how it is on the 900 and 944 cc bikes). did you try it on a warmer day? sometimes, i lean the bike left and right to get the oil flowing a bit or use some heat source on the cases. for example, i couldn't start my 944cc FE a few days ago in the 30's but it started right up today in the 50's.

have you checked the plugs to see if there's any juice? what do the plugs look like, dry, sooty, wet, ... that should tell you something.

is the choke engaging/disengaging freely?

what's the voltage reading when you turn on the ignition? for a wet battery, it should be 12.6v. if it's below 12.4, it's fairly hard to start it.

[edwyun]

and dave, put the shotgun down.
=)

[doocatiboy]

Originally Posted by edwyun

and dave, put the shotgun down.
=)

Uh...who is this 'Dave' you speak of and what's he doing with a shotgun ?! Season is over - back to endeavors involving the two wheeled Ducs

I don't think it's a temp related issue since I've ridden much colder with no problem. No whirring either, only sound is a solid click unlike any click I've heard before. And I've heard some bike clicks

What I'm focused on is that my rocking it while in gear is what seems to jar things loose so the starter can turn whatever was previously locked down.

Haven't checked the plugs either but that's on my agenda once I get the bike to the house.

What else you got?!

[edwyun]

have you checked the starter wire/connection to see if it's corroded or not (if it's similar to the 900cc bikes, be careful not to damage the wire that goes through the bolt).

how many miles on the bike? the starter motor may need to be re-wound/replaced.

when was the last time the bike was tuned - carb synch and valves?

[doocatiboy]

Originally Posted by edwyun

have you checked the starter wire/connection to see if it's corroded or not (if it's similar to the 900cc bikes, be careful not to damage the wire that goes through the bolt).

how many miles on the bike? the starter motor may need to be re-wound/replaced.

when was the last time the bike was tuned - carb synch and valves?

All connxns are in good shape - from start button to pos lead on starter.
Bike's got about 18K mi. Not sure when she was last tuned but I'm sure it's time.
Don't think I mentioned I'm running FCRs.

[Desmomaniac]

Originally Posted by doocatiboy

Don't think I mentioned I'm running FCRs.

bowl's don't automatically drain on the fcr's like the stock mikuni's did... gas will lacquer up and make starting a pain. my first start is usually somewhat painful after sitting for a couple of weeks, but not an issue the rest of the day or if i ride the bike regularly.

i'm to lazy to empty the bowls every time i ride it every few weeks. maybe/hopefully that's your issue?

[doocatiboy]

Originally Posted by Desmomaniac

bowl's don't automatically drain on the fcr's like the stock mikuni's did... gas will lacquer up and make starting a pain. my first start is usually somewhat painful after sitting for a couple of weeks, but not an issue the rest of the day or if i ride the bike regularly.

i'm to lazy to empty the bowls every time i ride it every few weeks. maybe/hopefully that's your issue?

I've endured sluggish starts and this wasn't like that. Something is seizing such that the starter overheats to the point it melts the + lead boot.

[edwyun]

if it's not the usual suspects, it may be time to look to the engine. has the motor been massaged or worked on recently?

[dezmoduo]

FCR's,
Well long shot here. Stuck float pin and hydro locked cylinder?
Will not crank. No apparent reason.
Remove the spark plugs from both cylinders and attempt to crank. Don't look into the plug hole when you hit the starter though.

dez
nyc

[944SS]

Had the same type of symptoms you described so I'd guess it's a starter problem, the sprag being the likely culprit. Do you notice a loud clanking sound as you turn off the ignition? I did in the few days prior to it giving up completely. It's not hard to remove the starter to check. It may even free up by just taking apart and cleaning up. The starter posive lead connector is also a weak link. If you've tightened it up at all the insulation may have moved causing a direct ground to the starter housing which would cause the wires to heat instantly as you described. That would not cause things to seize but you may have two issues to deal with. Once it's apart, it's an obvious problem.

[doocatiboy]

Originally Posted by 944SS

Had the same type of symptoms you described so I'd guess it's a starter problem, the sprag being the likely culprit. Do you notice a loud clanking sound as you turn off the ignition? I did in the few days prior to it giving up completely. It's not hard to remove the starter to check. It may even free up by just taking apart and cleaning up. The starter posive lead connector is also a weak link. If you've tightened it up at all the insulation may have moved causing a direct ground to the starter housing which would cause the wires to heat instantly as you described. That would not cause things to seize but you may have two issues to deal with. Once it's apart, it's an obvious problem.

I'm pretty confident it's not the sprag. This is an all or none problem - now you see it, now you don't.

I do need to pull the plugs and open the l.side cover. If I figger it out I'll report back.

Thanks all.

[boom boom]

Originally Posted by dezmoduo

FCR's,
Well long shot here. Stuck float pin and hydro locked cylinder?
Will not crank. No apparent reason.
Remove the spark plugs from both cylinders and attempt to crank. Don't look into the plug hole when you hit the starter though.

dez
nyc

what i was thinkin....

[doocatiboy]

Originally Posted by dezmoduo

FCR's,
Well long shot here. Stuck float pin and hydro locked cylinder?
Will not crank. No apparent reason.
Remove the spark plugs from both cylinders and attempt to crank. Don't look into the plug hole when you hit the starter though.

dez
nyc

This whole deal went down late last week. Yesterday, after a few days of not riding, she started fine, flawlessly in fact. Same thing today. Runs like a champ. No hint of starting problems.

Could it be that it WAS hydrolocked or semi-locked and when I 'broke' it free by forcing the rear wheel while in gear it has solved the problem. At least until I let it sit a few weeks again?

Hmmm....

[edwyun]

great!


solution - ride the bike more!

[dezmoduo]

IF it "broke" free after you rolled it to and fro.... I'd check the oil fill and give a sniff test.
If it was "locked" , the excess fuel can run past the rings, washing down the oil coating, and land in your crankcase, diluting the lube.
One whiff of the oil will tell you.

dez
nyc

[cdansan]

I had the fuel run into the cylinders twice on my ss with FCR's, and once so far too the person I sold it to. The starter clicks and then nothing. The thing to do is turn off the fuel on the bottom of the tank if you are going to store it or trailer it. When you trailer it the vibration lets the fuel run past the float needle valve and fill the cylinder. If it happens again pull the plugs and turn it over by hand, fuel will spray out of the plug holes. Don't use the starter, you don't want spark with the loose fuel, unless you need the insurance money.

If you have checked all the electrical issues with the ss, especially the starter solenoid and the starter terminal boot. Fuel hydrolocking is your best bet.

[07faster]

Originally Posted by dezmoduo

IF it "broke" free after you rolled it to and fro.... I'd check the oil fill and give a sniff test.
If it was "locked" , the excess fuel can run past the rings, washing down the oil coating, and land in your crankcase, diluting the lube.
One whiff of the oil will tell you.

dez
nyc

+1 for checking oil. If you have a backfire or by luck pushing a little oil past the rings you can have a oil pan explosion. Fuel also kills the oil properties.

[doocatiboy]

Changed oil and it's def very diluted w.fuel. Ran out quick and was greyish rather than the usual color. Anyway, bike sat over the wkend and things were the same problem:

• Starter wouldn't turn
• put in 1st, yanked her around to free up the seizure
• started fine

Now, here's the concerning part:
Look what the hell I found stuck to the drain plug I don't know carbs and internals too well but looks to me this could be from the carb. Yeah? What is this screw from? And how stupid am I to run the bike before figuring out where it's from?

Despite this having been in the engine for some period of time prior to getting stuck on the magnet I've heard or felt no scary sounding sounds from the engine. In fact today as I warmed it up before oil change she idled and revved fine.

[07faster]

Looks like a float bowl screw, But that wouldnt end up there. Everything else is a allen type bolt.

Who worked on your bike last?

Id pull the plugs ASAP, Once you know everything is clear do a leakdown and a comp check.

Have you messed with any vac lines to the tank?