wheels or suspension

SP544 · #1 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 05:35 AM

hey all, I was wondering about what item would give better bang for the buck on a 95 SP. I hear so many great things about upgrading to a lighter set of wheels, but also about going to a nice suspension like Ohlins, Penske, race tech stuff. My SP has the stock factory suspension and wheels I am wanting to start saving up for these big ticket items. I know there are a lot of riders who have more experience than me, so I would really like to get your thoughts and insight. thanks

Jeff H. · #2 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 06:03 AM

I've done both upgrades on my '98 900CR and I still think it's a tough question. When I got my magnesium rims, I immediately noticed a huge improvement with regards to initial turn in and cornering. Suspension seemed to work better too. My Ohlins rear shock, however, seemed to make the Duc handle overall much better...rough roads, cornering, adjustability to rider and conditions. I just felt so much more comfortable once the Ohlins was in place. Stiffer front springs also paid off a great deal. I suppose if I had to do it over again I would stick with doing suspension first and then rims, if for no other reason than the stock suspension was just so crappy. That doesn't seem like a very effective explaination, but hopefully it helps a little. Enjoy whatever you get!

Jeff

chaas67 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 11:01 AM

On my '95 900SS/CR, I've only done the suspension but I have to tell you the difference is incredible. To Jeff's point the stock suspension is crap and since I ride the track only I feel safer with the improved suspension.

I put a SBK front end on and installed a Ohlins rear shock. The rear ride height adjustment will make the bike more flickable.

Haven't done wheels yet but with the new 749S replacement on the horizon maybe I won't get that far...

There's my

..

GregP · #4 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 02:46 PM

Suspension 1st.

xseal · #5 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregP

Suspension 1st.

Agreed. Street or track, it will make the bigger difference.

QWK QWK · #6 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 10:23 PM

I would do the suspension first as well, in fact I just scored DesmoBobs Ohlins rear. Merry X-mas to me!!!

I also have the Race Tech kit sitting here ready to go in.
IMO wheels are very cool, but first you have to make the bike work right.

glockem45 · #7 (**permalink**) 12-21-2006, 01:52 PM

Suspension is always the first thing to do on a bike whether you are going to track the bike or it is going to stay on the street. I wouldn't even begin to worry about getting wheels unless you are going to be on the track, or of course if you have the money to spend, then go ahead and get them for the street.

Norm · #8 (**permalink**) 12-21-2006, 01:58 PM

I think Jeff H's explanation was perfect.

**NC Rick** · #9 (**permalink**) 01-07-2007, 06:04 PM

We ride on bumpy tight roads but I also have done a fair number of track days with our SS bikes. On my 99 we have don a great deal of suspension upgrades (call it development, but it started as playing around) and I put the Carozzerria wheel on about a year later. The Carros are not super light but with the disks, I saved about 6 lbs. To me, suspension mods totally transformed the bike and made it a fantastic bike all around. The wheels only made a noticeable difference on fast turns (did help the suspension work a little better). The wheels likely made very little difference to me on the street and I doubt they were worth the $$. On the track, they helped the bike turn in better on fast corners. IMO do it in this order: Forks, Shock and then wheels. I would even put my Brembo radial master and Carbone Lorraine pads ahead of the wheels.

bruntr · #10 (**permalink**) 01-07-2007, 06:45 PM

Nice to see an honest opinion from someone who stands to benifit $$ from selling these wheels....... glad I went the suspension route first this winter.... I was going to get some good rims as well but for now that extra cash will go into the track day budget

Hyperpasta · #11 (**permalink**) 01-07-2007, 08:43 PM

Why wouldn't you do the wheels first, then when doing the suspension let your suspension guy know you have light wheels, like BST's then he could setup your forks and suspension more accurately. I'm thinking if you pulled say 8-10 lbs from a rear wheel, that it would effect the operation or lessen the movement in wheel travel and speed of travel.

When we set the sag on our suspension, don't we do so with our riding gear, and just not in our street clothes. I know this is Apples and Oranges, but the slight difference in weight seems to effect sag, so why wouldn't unsprung wheel weight not effect suspension operation.

I'm thinking that your suspension just might work a whole lot better when valved to for a lighter wheel package.

Why pay to do something twice......what do you think?

**NC Rick** · #12 (**permalink**) 01-07-2007, 11:13 PM

The rear wheel was close to 3 lbs lighter. The front more like 2. You can find tires that make close to that difference. We would not change rebound damping or spring rate for that, I guess you could change the compression damping a tad but i did not find a need (even on the adjuster). The lighter wheels make the suspension work better because the wheels can better follow small irregularitys (sprung weight change).

Hyperpasta · #13 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007, 04:33 AM

So you only saved 5lbs total?

On my 996 with the old three spokes, I added Mag Ten Spokes which was good for 13 lbs weight savings. I know C/F will shave off a couple of more lbs. Add a light weight sprocket and a light weight drilled rear disk and the number become even lighter. I can see forgoing the suspension hassle for a couple of pounds per wheel, I agree with you. Your also right about tires being enough of a difference to eat up that 5lbs of wheel weight savings. Damn the wrong tire choice could set you back to where you started from. I thought the wheels were a lot lighter.

Desmomaniac · #14 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperpasta

Why wouldn't you do the wheels first, then when doing the suspension...

i'd say because the stock springs usually are so crappy for my 240# butt.

springs, valves, and oil... front and rear... is usually a cheap mod, especially if your stock suspension is adjustable. next on the list would be aftermarket adjustable suspension. makes a big difference ride quality... especially when stock components are not.

then wheels if you're looking for some all around extra...

you can probably dial in the compression and rebound later to make up for the lighter wheels... but springs establish the ride for your weight especially if you're a meat head like me.

F1 Miami · #15 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desmomaniac

i'd say because the stock springs usually are so crappy for my 240# butt.

springs, valves, and oil... front and rear... is usually a cheap mod, especially if your stock suspension is adjustable. next on the list would be aftermarket adjustable suspension. makes a big difference ride quality... especially when stock components are not.

then wheels if you're looking for some all around extra...

you can probably dial in the compression and rebound later to make up for the lighter wheels... but springs establish the ride for your weight especially if you're a meat head like me.

Good advice. I would add, start with the simple stuff first. Be sure sag is set properly. Next, front end height (fork relation to triple clamps) makes a huge difference in handling. The higher the front end, more stable straight line handling but harder to turn, lower front end, quicker steering but if you go too low, starts to become unstable in a straight line at high speed.

**NC Rick** · #16 (**permalink**) 01-08-2007, 07:45 PM

I am in total agreement! setting the sag and making sure your stock components are in good working order is part of the suspenion setup and #1. I would also include making sure that the steering and swing arm bearings are in good shape and adjusted correctly. The SS likes to trash the steering bearings, there is little greese from the factory and they are open to the elements with no seals at all. (at least my 99 was this way).

Yea, the Carros are not the lightest wheels, just cheap and strong. Also, the 99 and newer ss has lighter wheels than the 98 and before. There is a couple pounds there.

I would love to have some carbon wheels just to see what improvement i could feel.