916 ignition/acceleration problems - 916 SPS w. P8 Bike: 916 SPS with p8 ECU. 2 pickups on flywheel.
TPS working 100% - Tested
Charging system and battery OK - Tested
Flywheel NOT loose - checked
Gasoline good - Tested 100% in other bike
Fault: Under HARD acceleration, the bike misses ignition for a split second, very abrupt, like running into the rev-limiter.
Observations: Happens above 6k rpm, mostly at 9k+ RPM. When it happens, the rev needle drops to 0 and then jumps back when acceleration resumes. it is VERY much like hitting a "false" rev-limit, but when i back of the gas, it surges forward like it should. If i increase throttle when she misfires, the misfire increases. When running on normal loads, the bike is smooth all the way to red-line. its only under 80% and above throttle opening that it misses. Misses most on gear 3 and 4 under 100% throttle open.
Other: Bike starts and runs smooth, still smooth on power roll on. Gasoline is good (2 other bikes run on the same gasoline that same day).
Reasoning.
The revgauge jumps with the "loss of signal" so I´m thinking that this is either a sensor or ECU problem.. If it had been a gasoline or gaspump problem, the rev gauge wouldnt die to ZERO would it? It would just stay at the rpm it was at? Does the P8 send a separate signal to the rev-gauge in repect of the ignition coils? What about the signal enhacers? I was thinking ignitioncoil, but both cylinders seem to die at the same moments..
Talked it over with Tom and he figured it looks like the problem might be between the flywheel (which isnt loose when i try to move it through the P8 insection hole) and the ECU (which is sending the signal to the rev-gauge that the RPMS temporarily dropped to zero)
Need to know.
Anyone had this problem?
Anyone know how to test a P8 ecu?
Anyone know how to test a P8 rev/location sensor?
Anyone know how to test the P8 signalenhancer?
EDIT EDIT EDIT PROBLEM SOLVED!
After changing to another P8 ECU, the problem went away. The same chip was used, so its not that.
I also checked the sensors and the signal enhacers, but it wasn´t those.
So she´s 100% recovered.
//amullo
//amullo
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
916 ignition/acceleration problems - 916 SPS w. P8 Bike: 916 SPS with p8 ECU. 2 pickups on flywheel.
TPS working 100% - Tested
Charging system and battery OK - Tested
Flywheel NOT loose - checked
Gasoline good - Tested 100% in other bike
Fault: Under HARD acceleration, the bike misses ignition for a split second, very abrupt, like running into the rev-limiter.
Observations: Happens above 6k rpm, mostly at 9k+ RPM. When it happens, the rev needle drops to 0 and then jumps back when acceleration resumes. it is VERY much like hitting a "false" rev-limit, but when i back of the gas, it surges forward like it should. If i increase throttle when she misfires, the misfire increases. When running on normal loads, the bike is smooth all the way to red-line. its only under 80% and above throttle opening that it misses. Misses most on gear 3 and 4 under 100% throttle open.
Other: Bike starts and runs smooth, still smooth on power roll on. Gasoline is good (2 other bikes run on the same gasoline that same day).
Reasoning.
The revgauge jumps with the "loss of signal" so I´m thinking that this is either a sensor or ECU problem.. If it had been a gasoline or gaspump problem, the rev gauge wouldnt die to ZERO would it? It would just stay at the rpm it was at? Does the P8 send a separate signal to the rev-gauge in repect of the ignition coils? What about the signal enhacers? I was thinking ignitioncoil, but both cylinders seem to die at the same moments..
Talked it over with Tom and he figured it looks like the problem might be between the flywheel (which isnt loose when i try to move it through the P8 insection hole) and the ECU (which is sending the signal to the rev-gauge that the RPMS temporarily dropped to zero)
Need to know.
Anyone had this problem?
Anyone know how to test a P8 ecu?
Anyone know how to test a P8 rev/location sensor?
Anyone know how to test the P8 signalenhancer?
//amullo
Try swaping the pickups, on both sides ( the engine and the conector).
Also clean the pickups, they tend to catch metal parts.
Check the kill-switch on the R/H bar. Sometimes they make poor contact and the vibration kills momentarily the
engine. The voltage regulator playing up can also do this, especially if it's a "Ducati Failetronica" one. A voltage spike will cut the ignition for a microsecond, which is what sounds like is happening as the tacho needle drops.
__________________ ...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
Sofar:
Change Sensor - Are both the same model? Source to buy maybe?
Change ECU - Planned.. got 2 friendswho ride SPS´s + Tom ofcourse
Check killswitch and Voltage - Nice one.. I´ll double check and also run as total loss system and see if that fixes it.
Any other ideas?
What is the Max voltage i should see over the battery att full charging?
Are we agreed that is does NOT look like a fuel availbility issue?
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
I had this symptom on my single pickup 1.6 bike. It was a the pickup failing internally. When I removed the pickup, it was swollen like a bad capacitor. Initially it only happen at high revs when hot, but it progressively became worse over time. Check the gotham cycles and ducati depots of the world for some decent used ones to try. On mine it tested good, but you could immediately see that something was physically wrong as it was barrell shaped and very hard to remove.
To check: Sounds like a bad crank sensor or the air gap is too wide, try a thinner shim at .4 gap if is at the .8 oem setting. A broken wire in the sensor will gradually get worse. (need an oscilloscope to detect). Have seen a bad tach do something like that so un plug it first and try with reduced pick-up coil air gap next.
Also from Brad, but on ducati.ms if it's one of the two rotation sensors it will record the fault as it knows if one is going bad, but only hold it for that key on maybe?. i forget how p8 internal diagnostics work now.
what i'd do: read logged faults. hard wire the relays under the seat. remove and refit eprom. swap the ecu.
i had one that had a bad crimp on the 4 power wires at the screw loc throttle body connector. looked ok, but put some solder on it and it fixed a miss that had been around for years. but that was 7,500 rpm specific.
How do I check faultcodes?
I have never done it.. Didn´t think it could be done on the old p8. Getting more info on this would DEFINATLY help. Anyone??
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
Ok..
(1) replace spark plugs - Will DO! its about time anyway.
(2) check gap between flywheel pickups and sensor - Ok. 0.8 to 0.4 mm right?
(3) check resistance on sensors - Whats a good reading? i though i needed an oscilloscope..
(4) check TPS settings - Reading is good at the ECU for TPS from close to open. checked it already.
Rode the bike home from the garage yesterday and it rides FINE when you riding normally.. No bucks and uneven running at all.. I was taking it really easy since the police where out in force, but the bhe bike got up to full operating temps with no issues at all.
it DID let out a weird "pop" on extended decell down a long hill in third after a medium hard accell.. But that isn´t that big a deal is it?
//amullo
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
I'll check the manual for the resistance reading and gap and post it later.....
Generally a pop in the exhaust on decel is indicative of an exhaust manifold leak near the header. (bad gasket)?
Have you checked the TPS itself, they can get dirty inside causing an otherwise smooth increase to become jerky. Basically it's like a potentiometer....
On my 95 916 I had an unusual problem. I was left high and dry on the freeway leaving MotoGP a couple years ago, right after I went WOT. Moments after doing that the engine just died. Later on I discovered something was really amiss because during the fuel pump priming the exhaust cylinders and then the exhaust pipes were being filled with fuel. After trying everything I trailered it down to Nichols Mfg and fully expected the bike to be there for a week or two. The chief mechanic at the time was Jim, he pulled the bike aside and told me he was going to check it out right away. Since I had some other things to take care of in the immediate area I'm glad I didn't just turn around and go home, its a 2 1/2 hour drive. I got a call from Jim about an hour or so after I dropped it off there and Jim advised me the bike was fixed! Apparently some parts on the P8 computer got rearranged as Jim put it and he put everything back in their correct sequence. He told me the problem was more extensive than that but for the purpose of keeping it simple, that was it and to be honest I didn't care because I was happy the bike was fixed.
I know this might not immediately point you in a direction, but as you know there are many scenarios and some off the wall symptoms. You never know because if its P8 related there might be some relationship or if your P8 is not mechanically sorted in a sense like mine, then maybe the cause is the same but the outcome or symptoms are different.
I thought I would offer my situation, nothing to loose much to gain so I think an email to Jim is a good idea. Even if my situation turns out not to be related, Jim is a top notch Ducati mechanic with a great reputation, hes been around the block. However, he is no longer associated with Nichols, opening his own shop in San Jose, California USA this year. He is next to or a door or two away from Helimot leathers down there. Someone might know his number or I'll track it down because he is totally unselfish when it comes to helping you out. Just so if you decide to contact him I'll provide my info so he will remember the situation, it was a rare instance from what I recall.
__________________
2003 HD FLHRI
2003 Ducati 999R #189
2009 Buell 1125CR (sold)
2007 Ducati 1100S MTS (sold)
2005 Honda 600RR (totalled)
2001 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1995 Ducati 916 (sold)
2004 Ducati 999S (sold)
2005 Honda 600RR (Oops, I did it again, this time in red/black - sold)
Any luck finding the fault ?
Let me know the status and maybe we can work something out with the fault codes via the diagnose connection.
/Henrik Nygren
Any luck finding the fault ?
Let me know the status and maybe we can work something out with the fault codes via the diagnose connection.
/Henrik Nygren
Nothing new.. Havent had a chance to check this at all yet. I´m gonna try and get it done during saturday/sunday and report back. I´ve got a 2 day trackday coming up, so i defintaly have a good oportunity to chech her out good.
I´m going to start with the fuelrelays and also clean and check the pickups. I´ll try and borrow a P8 + signal enhacers + pickups and see if its any of those.
So in short
1. Replace Fuelrelays under seat
2. Clean and check spacing on pickups, check OHMS to see if they are "good"
3. Replace P8
4. Replace signal enhacers next to P8
5. Replace pickups.
//amullo
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
PROBLEM SOLVED!
After changing to another P8 ECU, the problem went away. The same chip was used, so its not that.
I also checked the sensors and the signal enhacers, but it wasn´t those.
So she´s 100% recovered.
//amullo
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
PROBLEM SOLVED!
After changing to another P8 ECU, the problem went away. The same chip was used, so its not that.
I also checked the sensors and the signal enhacers, but it wasn´t those.
So she´s 100% recovered.
//amullo
Hi Amullo,
glad you figured it out.
We had 3 of those problems all depanding on P8 ECU...
So the ECU swap was the first thing to point on.
916SPS P8 ignition problems - need ideas..
Linear Mode
