853R rear cylinder fuel requirement

[748R_bb155]

Started mappnig on the Fuchs dyno yesterday.
Using a AFR tuner..
How much differense in can the front and rear cylinder can the fuel amount vari.
The limitation on the current software is +- 13 % front and rear cylinder.
maxed out between 6000 to 9000 rpm. (need more fuel)
Got a new frimware variant that allows med + - 40 % fuel.
the dcuati eprom is running separete maps, and runs much leaner at the rear cylinder, this is what causing the problems

is 20-40 persent increace in fuel to the rear cylinder from what the front cylinder has normal.

AFR upto 600 and above 900 is sport on for both cylinders.

AFR info :

offsett +-40 in the afr tuner is +-13% (allows for offsett map)

can have +-115 for the offsett ca +- 40 % (test firmware, not official)


The 853R pushes out the same HP +1, as the 749R with the Lanzi engine kit,
+ it has 10 NM more. peak HP at 11000 rpm, for the 853, 12600 for the 749R with Lanzi engine kit. (the 749R holds its hp from 10500 to 13000 rpm)

EO

[TomTom]

Dont have ton of experience with 748r, only done one and it was a real challenge getting the offset map correct, it turned out real nice in the end though. Since you are doing it yourself time is no biggie and you can try swapping the injectors and see if it changes anything, just to exclude variances in the injectors, or have them bench tested.

Did a 996 that had 431 and G cams that I sent back since it was too far off to be healthy, base offset was over 30% more than horisontal, both at part load and full load, just to make it run properly, not ok.

You should not find a constant need for offset in my opinion, part of the range will but not the whole range. >
If you like to find out I can make an eprom without offset so youll get a clear picture of the difference?

[748R_bb155]

Originally Posted by TomTom

Dont have ton of experience with 748r, only done one and it was a real challenge getting the offset map correct, it turned out real nice in the end though. Since you are doing it yourself time is no biggie and you can try swapping the injectors and see if it changes anything, just to exclude variances in the injectors, or have them bench tested.

Did a 996 that had 431 and G cams that I sent back since it was too far off to be healthy, base offset was over 30% more than horisontal, both at part load and full load, just to make it run properly, not ok.

You should not find a constant need for offset in my opinion, part of the range will but not the whole range. >
If you like to find out I can make an eprom without offset so youll get a clear picture of the difference?

here a pic from the afr logger , rear cyliner goes lean

[TomTom]

Oh, Im not used to that display.

What are we looking at? afr in red and are there several? is revs stationary? please explain more.

[748R_bb155]

Originally Posted by TomTom

Oh, Im not used to that display.

Get the afr from 10 to 18 so you get a bit better resolution.

What is diplayed, a run in the dyno?

the graphs are fron the afr log software


full throttle run in 6 gear

the red line in 3 of them
TAFR = Target afr = 12.8
afr 1 = still red is around 12.8 front cylinder
afr 2 = " the "belly up" on the grap richens from 12.8 to about 15 rear cylinder

cant rescale the afr graph, sorry not in the software

Tammas also logs the injetor opening times and can se that the duration of the pulses is shorter than the front cylinder (from the ducati ecu before fuel is added). (I dont have the viewer for these data, but he uses them for debug)

On the firm ware that I used its possible to add +-13 percent for the pulse duration, i gather if it could added more it would have evend out.
dont know how much/less fuel the rear cylinder is getting than the front cylinder.

excatly how much more or less fuel the rear cylinder gets, I dont know, but TOMTOM probably does, its the 076 eprom DP.

We tried to "add" fuel manualy in the fuel map, but there was a restricion in the configuration software/and firmware, so we stopped mapping.
(a day well spendt on the dyno)

Got I new firmware, wil install it before I go to germany this thursday, cant get any dyno time in before that.

We did every tp with 5 % increase to a 100 % , 2 to 3 runs in each posision.

[TomTom]

You had too much time before the run, I'm old and it cost to scroll you know!

Ok, you can zoom certain areas right?

From whats visible its running out of fuel.
999 injectors with the duration from the 748R chip will produce around 140, so there is something not fully consequent here.
So if you are trying an external manipulation on top of the eprom and they are not sufficient, 748r injectors do not flow close to 999 injectors.

Maybe weve been wrong about the 748r injectors the whole time? (I just digged up a rack, I'll try and flow them sometime after the summer).

Subsequently if the 748r's are too small then the 999s will do.

[brad black]

748R DP eprom offset map is generally up to 10% richer on the rear.

748R injectors are the same as 998S, as i have looked at them - iwp069 from memory, yellow band pico ones.

[desmo_pt]

This is the first map that i made after a run of 40 min with a AFR logger.

First is the Horizontal map the second is the offset in ms for the vertical.

The bike is a 02 748R with the heads ported.

With this map i cured the misfire that i had in the closed thottle.

[748R_bb155]

TAMMAS, WHO MAKES THE AFR TUNER.
LOGGSS THE DURATION OF THE PULSES TO THE FRONT AND REAR CYLINDER.
HE CONFIRMS THAT THERE IS A OFFSETT MAP IN THE EPROM.
THE DURATION FOR THE REAR CYLINDER IS SHORTER THAN THE FRONT,
HE HAS NOT SENT MED THE OPENING TIMES FOR THE INJECTOR, BY HE STATES THAT THE REAR CYLINDER GETS LESS FUEL THAN, THE FRONT.

LIMITATIONS ON THE AFR TUNER WILL NOT ABLE MET TO GET MORE FUEL TO THE REAR CYLINDER,(GOT A NEW FRIMWARE WICH ALLOWS ME TO RICHEN MORE). THERE ARE 8 CELLS IN THE FUELL MAP WHERE THE AFR TUNER MAXEX OUT WITH 13 PERSENT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FRONT AND REAR, THE REST IS OK !!!!!!1

WILL POST A PIC OF MY SPREADSHETT FOR HOW MUCH FUEL IT HAS ADDED TONIGHT

eo

[748R_bb155]

In Germany right now.
Bike works like a charm over 4000 rpm, man I need to have my trottlebodies sett up right way (Mz(y) (german keyboard sucks) tools and time beforew I left for germany was ..-... fto ucking short.
(the Norwegian Ducati dealer wich I live 1000 meters from was book til agust for anz workshop servce ((((((()

On the trip to the ferrz I tired to cut a corner in a roundabout (ande save 10 sec), 30 meters from the ticket line at the ferrry docks and got hit by a bus

1300 euro for a front wheel and rim
But the our 1 week trip to the Nurburgring was saved. Thanks to Claus Cartstens Ducati (German Ducati Shop) who picket the bike up at the ferry docks when we arrived, drove it 80 KM to his shop, an sorted the problem..

Seems like the new firmware works ok, have to wait to wait to friday befire I can upload the data from the afr tuner.


what I need to do now is :

syncronize the throttle boies, and get an other trip to the Dyno......