Get the correct springs for your weight. You are never gonna get this bike set up without that done. Valving isn't important right now...spring rates are. You're messing with ride heights and steering head angles...none of it matters without springs.
"Also, 17 vs 16.5, I have to stick with the 16.5's or not race. I have TUNS of tires and have already put all the money I have into a system that I know will work properly..."
It's NOT working properly. I would guess the construction of the tire is all wrong for you, the track, the speeds your running. Way too stiff...just because they are "AMA Takeoffs" don't mean they'll work for the speeds you're riding.
You really need to try different tires and wheels on this bike, regardless of what you've bought. They can be sold or traded. Borrow some 17's and try some Pirellis or Bridgestones...whatever. Anything but Dunlops for the test.
Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: I ain't pissing nothing away. I got a Porsche already; a 911 with a quadraphonic Blaupunkt. Crash Davis: Christ, you don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curve ball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.
You don't need an ETI Fuel Cell or a Nemesis Computer...what you need is a straight bike and the suspension set up correctly. There's two to three seconds right there. At least.
I'm not trying to be a jackass here, Tye. I know you know I know what I'm talking about (what did I say?? ) You're wasting time and money and chasing your tail.
Last edited by Chuckracer; 04-24-2009 at 02:51 AM.
Get the correct springs for your weight. You are never gonna get this bike set up without that done.
According to the Ohlins guide, all the springs are 100% perfect for my weight. Dan Kyle also whole-heartedly agrees and is still scratching his head a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer
It's NOT working properly. I would guess the construction of the tire is all wrong for you, the track, the speeds your running. Way too stiff...just because they are "AMA Takeoffs" don't mean they'll work for the speeds you're riding.
Actually, the bike is flawless at Fontana, Streets of Willow and Buttonwillow, the other 3 tracks I frequent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer
You really need to try different tires and wheels on this bike, regardless of what you've bought. They can be sold or traded. Borrow some 17's and try some Pirellis or Bridgestones...whatever. Anything but Dunlops for the test.
The top 5 riders at WSIR are all using Dunlops and not only that, but the same compound I'm using. Not only that, but the Dunlops also last longer and don't cost me jack shit. To be honest, a set of SuperCorsa Pro's to (test with) would cost me more money then I pay for an entire weekend of racing. Also, what would it prove? That all of a sudden, my sponsor makes products that don't work for me, but the top guys can use no problem? Shit, none of that makes any sense to me.
I do fault-finding diagnostics in engineering all day long. You have to keep a few constant elements, one of those is my wheels. Now going from 16.5's to 17"'s, won't make a jack shit worth of difference. I've measured the two of them, they are physically the same diameter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer
You don't need an ETI Fuel Cell or a Nemesis Computer...what you need is a straight bike and the suspension set up correctly. There's two to three seconds right there. At least.
Nope, ya don't need either of them. But I bought the ETI fuel cell because the stock tank is too large and it was getting in my way. So I could have bought a stock 749/999 tank for $500 bux, or spent a few hundred bux more (Yes I got a sponsorship deal) and get ride of 10 lb's? Plus, now I've got a spare tank!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer
You're wasting time and money and chasing your tail.
Na, I'm just being lazy. I just need to be less lazy thats all. I'll resolve a lot of problems this weekend.
Ohh and trust me, I'm totally done with spending money on the bike right now.
Ebby Calvin LaLoosh: I ain't pissing nothing away. I got a Porsche already; a 911 with a quadraphonic Blaupunkt. Crash Davis: Christ, you don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curve ball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.
Didnīt you say you knew "A LOT about suspension"?
And you didnīt even set the sag? Even I know that thatīs the first thing with suspension.
Of course I set sag, but I was unable to get the correct sag in the rear. I know why now, the math I was using from Department of Suspension was incorrect. I need to go back to more basic math from now on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trussdude
How about lossesning up on the bars when it gets squiggly, or raising your but off the seat and weight the pegs?
Yea, I usually ride with very loose arms through the straights and tend to keep my butt off the seat. I mean the front-end stability issue is very clearly ride-height induced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckracer
Heh...OK there Tye. It seems you've got it all worked out then, sooo...on ya go with your bad self.
Well, I do know the answer to the question, but that doesn't mean I know how to implement those answers. IE: cutting the fairing to make the front wheel fit? I mean, I would have never guessed that.
I'm gonna get to work on this tonight and see what happens. Maybe using some different math will help.
Also, what would it prove? That all of a sudden, my sponsor makes products that don't work for me, but the top guys can use no problem? Shit, none of that makes any sense to me.
I have to point out, just because you spend $2,000 to buy all of the left over 2008 AMA 16.5" take offs (I think 10 sets) that Gabe had does not make Dunlop your biggest sponsor. You don't get any special pricing from Sport Tire Services or any additional help. As per the contingency requirements you list them as a sponsor and wear there badges and stickers. To a degree they are your sponsor but not to the point where they would care if you tired any other tires. Hell, I still have Michelin badges on my leathers and pay exactly what you would pay for a new set from Gabe.
Tyler, your quick out there and have the potential to do well. Just don't treat us like we dont know what we are talking about, some of us have been in the paddocks for a long time and have many very involved friends in racing. You never know who is reading your posts. Road Racing is a small world.
I have to point out, just because you spend $2,000 to buy all of the left over 2008 AMA 16.5" take offs (I think 10 sets) that Gabe had does not make Dunlop your biggest sponsor. You don't get any special pricing from Sport Tire Services or any additional help.
Just don't treat us like we dont know what we are talking about, some of us have been in the paddocks for a long time and have many very involved friends in racing. You never know who is reading your posts. Road Racing is a small world.
Sorry, I can't comment on this. I would hope Gabe would be reciprocal in not discussing it as well.
Sport Tire Services has been nothing but the best supplier I've ever worked with. I've been very loyal to them and henceforth, they've been helping me for quite sometime. Don't forget, I've been on the podium all season so far.
Sorry, I can't comment on this. I would hope Gabe would be reciprocal in not discussing it as well.
Sport Tire Services has been nothing but the best supplier I've ever worked with. I've been very loyal to them and henceforth, they've been helping me for quite sometime. Don't forget, I've been on the podium all season so far.
BTW: I run new tires for races, not take-off's.
What's more top secret than Roswell? Tye's tire deal. There's obviously a LOT you can't comment on...
This thread is so typical Tye from Ducati.ms, I've got a problem but I know everything but I don't really know everything... Tye your only problem is between your ears.....
If you have the correct spring rates then you will be able to set sag and then your suspension will not be too stiff, some minor tweaks and your off and racing. Get these sorted first.
Secondly, have you walked the track yet? If you haven't go walk around each turn and find your bumps and come to terms with them, understand them and figure out a plan to keep them from hindering you. All the turns you listed with the bumps can be dealt with.
Turn 2 - get off the seat, take it tight with puck over dirt, watch the exit transition.
Turn 4b - run wider exiting off the hill, 1/3-1/4 left hand side of track. You'll miss the bump and it will set you up with better drive off the hill and straighter entry into 5.
Turn 5 - take it tighter, puck on curbing and you'll miss the bumps
Turn 8 - enter a little deeper to the left side of the track then flick it in hard towards the right, puck near dirt (wind direction depending) and you'll miss the entry bumps
Back straight and front straight - high speed straight up and down stuff = geometry of bike f'd up. Could be sorted once your suspension is corrected but could also be to your wheel choice...
my 0.02 pesos.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tye1138
Since some of you know willow... I can be more specific on the problems I'm having.
First off, the 749R uses a linear shock link, so the spring is much stiffer then a normal shock.
Also, I've never been able to get sag set properly. I'm going to attempt a re-try this weekend and report back with the results.
So the bike has only 2 issues:
1) I loose front-end stability coming down into 7 and down the straight.
2) Entering 2 , exiting 4B, entering 5, entering 8, the rear is very unsettled and the bumps translate all the way through my body into the bars, especially 2 and 8. Its so bumpy, I've had screws fall out of the bike, at Willow.
With that being said, I know the "problem", the rear is too stiff.
The shock is stock, so part of me wants to send it into Dan Kyle and have it re-built. Dan and I are talking and perhaps we'll come up with a solution tomorrow after I try to set sag.
Also, 17 vs 16.5, I have to stick with the 16.5's or not race. I have TUNS of tires and have already put all the money I have into a system that I know will work properly...
Of course I set sag, but I was unable to get the correct sag in the rear.
Suggests you have the wrong spring. On the 996 bikes anyways, you should get ~ 30 mm loaded and ~ 8-10 mm unloaded sag - if you can't get this, you should change springs. It varies depending on your ride height too, which changes the effective spring rate because the linkage geometry changes. Basic stuff.
__________________
08 Red Ducati 1098S
98 Black Ducati 748/800 (street)
99 Black Ducati 996 (race)
None of this boring suspension crap is as cool as an ETI Fuel Cell. How can my buddies at Willow know how rich and cool I by spending my time and money on suspension? You can't see that stuff, right? I mean, I got the Ohlins forks, the Ohlins shock, the 27mm triples, the Nemesis computer, the 16 inch wheels...it's all about the crap you buy, right? I'll spend my way to the front!!!
Go out and walk the track? Are you serious?? Only poor people walk, fer cryin out loud. I don't have to study or try, I'm naturally gifted and suceed at every venture I try. My mommy said so. Haven't you seen my website?
Motorcycle Roadracing is the single most honest endeavor you will ever attempt. You cannot BS your way through this sport. It is a cruel and exacting mistress and does not suffer fools or bullshit artists.
Don't forget, Tye hates rich people because they buy toys that they will never ride to their limits because only Tye can ride them (in reference to a person that owns a desmosedici and wads it).
Ubermench; thanks for your response. I've walked all the tracks I ride at, including buttonwillow. I've also flagged at all the tracks I ride as well. I feel that track knowledge is crucial and whole-heartedly agree with your WSIR tips, so thanks very much, its too bad we couldn't race together.
Jeff; The 749R uses a different type of shock valving and rocker assembly. The goal was to make the system more linear and ride height/wheel base changes, don't make as much of a difference to SAG. Thanks for your tips and I always appreciate your knowledgeable responses.
And the only person to give a straight-forward explanation and tip goes to Jeremy (crimsoncloak) who explained cutting the fairing to make things fit. I thank you for that tip, it makes sense, just wanted to verify.
Ohh well, its too bad you guys had to ruin this thread. It would have been a great place to discuss some 749R suspension/geometry settings and maybe someone less self centered then you guys would have found the info here helpful. All I tried to do was start some discussion that might have helped me or others.
Finally; Chuck... Why did I ever grant you access to my WSBK site and give you money towards your KTM?
Damon, I thought we had these issues resolved?
Jimmy; You're so jealous, you can't keep yourself together man. KEEP IT TOGETHER!
So the "usual suspects" ruin yet another thread. Now you can go back to sitting in your parents basement, waiting for someone else to post and start running your mouths about the fact you guys know nothing.
) You're wasting time and money and chasing your tail.
There's obviously a LOT you can't comment on...
Linear Mode
