Iīll agree that the windshield did look abit funny. Worked well though.. It was a "function before form" choice.
Itīs been replaced with a clear double bubble glass for better aerodynamics at the moment.
//amullo
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
in addition to everything that's been mentioned, i dropped probably 3-4 pounds switching to a nichols al flywheel. stock al subframe to the ducati omaha one is maybe a 2 lb savings. boring out the cylinders to 100mm will also drop some weight.
We weighed my bros 1098S racebike with a full tank of fuel and it came out at 183kg/403 LBS.
Itīs not even lightened that much.
The 1098 have a much lighter engine from factory. Ducati did everything seroius weightwatchers used to do themselves on earlier bikes, like drilling lightening holes in all the big gears in the engine, so it isn't really fair to compare a 749 with the 1098.
B.T.W I put my Bimota DB2 on the scales the other day. 175kg all ready to go on the street with the tank about half full.
The 1098 have a much lighter engine from factory. Ducati did everything seroius weightwatchers used to do themselves on earlier bikes, like drilling lightening holes in all the big gears in the engine, so it isn't really fair to compare a 749 with the 1098.
B.T.W I put my Bimota DB2 on the scales the other day. 175kg all ready to go on the street with the tank about half full.
True enough.. Ducati had done much of the work already.
It will be intresting to see your DB2 with the upgrades.. Howīs that going BTW?
//A
__________________
1998 916SPS #526 - Fast by Hypertrick
Pitcrew for GLi Infideli Endurance Racing
6.1.3 - Displacement limits are absolute and are set as follows:
LIGHTWEIGHT SUPERSPORT (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Single cylinder, Unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled 2-stroke, up to 450cc
Two stroke, air cooled, Unlimited displacement
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, non-desmodromic valves, up to 800cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, up to 1210cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 450cc
Four cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, up to 675cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, pre-1987 model year, up to 565cc
Harley-Davidson Sportsters of unlimited displacement
NOTE: BMW HP2, Ducati/Bimota/BMW Supermono/Woods Rotax are
excluded from the Lightweight class.
MIDDLEWEIGHT SUPERSPORT (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Single cylinder, Unlimited displacement
Two stroke, liquid cooled, up to 515cc
Two stroke, air cooled, Unlimited displacement Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 850cc
Twin cylinder, air cooled, Unlimited displacement
Three cylinder, up to 980cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 640cc
Four cylinder, air cooled, 2 valve, up to 775cc
HEAVYWEIGHT SUPERSPORT (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 1000cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 775cc
All other engine configurations, Unlimited displacement
-> 848 kit? Ducati23 did that at Corse Superbikes (demontech) and is always telling how good that engine was... 100cc increase of displacement should give you like 10 HP without compression bumping.
There is a chapter regarding engine modifications:
Quote:
E. Engine modifications include the following: (1.) Pistons which are no larger than 1mm over stock size may be
used but must be same compression ratio as the OEM piston.
(2.) Original equipment cylinders must be used.
(3.) Original equipment head, valves, and cams must remain as
produced, with the exception of machining the gasket surface of
the cylinder head.
(4.) Original equipment cases, crankshaft, and connecting rods must
remain as produced.
(5.) Original equipment transmission gears must be used.
(6.) Carburetor bodies and/or throttle bodies may not be modified, bored, or polished.
I donīt know if you can exploit the rules at that point, because the 848 big bore kit for your 749R would be 2mm overbore I think. But then, Ducati built the 848 and why would you not be allowed to run the same displacement? Itīs desmodromic-driven and shares the very same concept... Any input?
Quote:
6.1.2 All motorcycles must meet the following requirements in addition to the
applicable requirements in Section 5. A. Original equipment wheels, brake calipers, forks, frame, engine, fuel
induction system, and swing arm must be used.
(1) 18 wheels may be replaced with 17 wheels of the same width.
(2) 16 wheels may be replaced with 17 wheels of the same width.
Do the Marchesini Magnesium wheels count as OEM? Because if you look closely at it, OEM means original manufacturer equipment, and Marchesini makes the OEM, so if you used the magnesium OEM wheels, would that interfere with the rules? Kind of a grey area...
I mean, if I were to come with a 748 base model, which is equipped with Öhlins forks and shock, it is still OEM because they put them on the 748R for homologation. Thatīs still right according to the rules. But Iīd like to find out if they let you use Marchesini magnesium wheels, since theyīre made by the OEM. If not, I guess the 749R does have the forged aluminium wheels already?
-> 848 kit? Ducati23 did that at Corse Superbikes (demontech) and is always telling how good that engine was... 100cc increase of displacement should give you like 10 HP without compression bumping.
There is a chapter regarding engine modifications:
I donīt know if you can exploit the rules at that point, because the 848 big bore kit for your 749R would be 2mm overbore I think. But then, Ducati built the 848 and why would you not be allowed to run the same displacement? Itīs desmodromic-driven and shares the very same concept... Any input?
Do the Marchesini Magnesium wheels count as OEM? Because if you look closely at it, OEM means original manufacturer equipment, and Marchesini makes the OEM, so if you used the magnesium OEM wheels, would that interfere with the rules? Kind of a grey area...
I mean, if I were to come with a 748 base model, which is equipped with Öhlins forks and shock, it is still OEM because they put them on the 748R for homologation. Thatīs still right according to the rules. But Iīd like to find out if they let you use Marchesini magnesium wheels, since theyīre made by the OEM. If not, I guess the 749R does have the forged aluminium wheels already?
I don't really deal with racing rules, but I read this and just wanted to throw this out there. As the rules read, it does NOT say OEM it says Original equipment, and then goes on to list what equipment. It never mentions the manufacturer. My guess is that they were very specific about that so it wouldn't be a gray area like you say.
With that being said, can you show up with a standard bike say a 748 strada with all the 748R goodies on it? The way I read the rules I would say no, but are they that strict????
Well it doesnīt make any sense to allow a 748R to race in the same class and disallow you to put on an Öhlins fork, just because you donīt have an R model and it wasnīt fitted from the manufacturer.
The rules are there to allow tuning or technical state to a certain level, which has to be available to every participant in that particular class.
The way you read it, it would be the participant with the most high strung stock bike (here 848 or 749R) with the best stock parts having the best allowed equipment. All other base 749 owners would not be allowed to change brakes or anything... does that make sense? To me it doesnīt.
How the heck does the racing committee know your bike is an 850? How do they know it has mag wheels? I know many people who raced 848 kitted 749R's in middleweight's. I won't do that because the 749R is already cheater enough, but you can get away with it. What are they gonna do? contest it? Its club racing, I don't think anybody contests stuff unless your in the formula classes and are winning races that you shouldn't be (normally would be out classed)
if you want to cheat, go home. Iīve always hated the guys saying "ohhh thatīs a complete stock SPS engine!" which tear up the asphalt and wheelie through to gear 5 on the straight... yeah right, 133 HP SPS. ****ers...
If your bike doesnīt fit into the class rules, race elsewhere.
As for finding out, we usually have a dyno on track. And in addition to that, there are said to be some squealers on track that if they find out about your stuff not being proper for the class, theyīre gonna tell...
I wouldnīt do that, but I have heard about it. And somehow I can understand that kind of behaviour, because on the one side itīs you doing everything to make the best out of the bike inside the regulations and then thereīs this other guy who just doesnīt give a **** about rules. You just donīt do that. Thatīs unsportsmanlike.
if you want to cheat, go home. Iīve always hated the guys saying "ohhh thatīs a complete stock SPS engine!" which tear up the asphalt and wheelie through to gear 5 on the straight... yeah right, 133 HP SPS. ****ers...
If your bike doesnīt fit into the class rules, race elsewhere.
As for finding out, we usually have a dyno on track. And in addition to that, there are said to be some squealers on track that if they find out about your stuff not being proper for the class, theyīre gonna tell...
I wouldnīt do that, but I have heard about it. And somehow I can understand that kind of behaviour, because on the one side itīs you doing everything to make the best out of the bike inside the regulations and then thereīs this other guy who just doesnīt give a **** about rules. You just donīt do that. Thatīs unsportsmanlike.
I agree %100, I have never raced personally, but I would absolutely love to get into it. I would do whatever I could to be as competitive or over board as I could, short of breaking the rules. What the hell is the fun/competitive nature to beating everyone with a bike you know doesn't belong in that class. (I don't think Tye is that kind of person, and I also don't think he is implying that you cheat, but that people do.)
I started reading some rules of the CRA and I have to say as a newbie trying to figure it all out, its pretty intimidating. I tried to figure out how I was going to get my 996 to a point where I could race it without breaking any of the rules, I pretty much gave up. I figured I would just buy a stock bike and start from the start, I figure thats easier than trying to detune, my baby.
Ben710 let me know if you find out the answer to if you can use parts from other bikes just as long as they were on a production bike at one time!!
if you want to cheat, go home. Iīve always hated the guys saying "ohhh thatīs a complete stock SPS engine!" which tear up the asphalt and wheelie through to gear 5 on the straight... yeah right, 133 HP SPS. ****ers...
If your bike doesnīt fit into the class rules, race elsewhere.
As for finding out, we usually have a dyno on track. And in addition to that, there are said to be some squealers on track that if they find out about your stuff not being proper for the class, theyīre gonna tell...
I wouldnīt do that, but I have heard about it. And somehow I can understand that kind of behaviour, because on the one side itīs you doing everything to make the best out of the bike inside the regulations and then thereīs this other guy who just doesnīt give a **** about rules. You just donīt do that. Thatīs unsportsmanlike.
+1
100% with you. And I deeply regret for not filing a so called "objection" (don't know which term in english would describe this better) during my last race. We busted our b@lls to get through the 6h race, only to be beaten (in the twin's class that is) by a rule-braking team. At least was one more lesson learned.
And my personal view is that especially in amateur class/club racing level it is even more important.
I started reading some rules of the CRA and I have to say as a newbie trying to figure it all out, its pretty intimidating. I tried to figure out how I was going to get my 996 to a point where I could race it without breaking any of the rules, I pretty much gave up. I figured I would just buy a stock bike and start from the start, I figure thats easier than trying to detune, my baby.
Letīs see your baby and the list of mods and the rule sheet. Iīm sure we can help together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neno
Ben710 let me know if you find out the answer to if you can use parts from other bikes just as long as they were on a production bike at one time!!
Well, I fear itīs not me being in the position to find out but rather Deton8dīs.
Ben710 let me know if you find out the answer to if you can use parts from other bikes just as long as they were on a production bike at one time!!
I think that as long as the part has been homologated, even if it was part of the oem equipment of another bike of the same manufacturer, then most probably it is ok. But as Ben said, that's something that you guys in the US need to look into.
Maybe ask formaly the organisation ?
Sorry Ben, my comment wasn't about you... I was just saying.
Every team cheats somehow. Look at AMA in 08, almost all the Suzuki's had works cranks and everybody shrugged??!?! WTF? I mean your a professional team and its illegal to have a works crank, but you had one? Thats not something you just put in and say "ohh, forgot to pull that out".
Ducati is the biggest cheater of them all, they get the rules changed in whatever series they ride. Last time I checked 1198cc twins were not legal in AMA until Ducati made one and pressured people to accept the new rules.
In some ways, I think cheating is part of the sport, all be it, in very small proportions. Personally, I'm not a cheater, but a lot of people pressured me to do the 848 kit in my 749R and ride it in a class that accepts 750's. Thats total bullshit, but ya know what? Had this been 3 years ago and EVERYBODY was doing that mod, I might not have been a choice. Had I wanted to win, I would have had to cheat like everybody else.
Anyhow, you can follow every rule to a T, but its very hard to. I was going to race superstock, but my bike is far from stock, so I decided not to. Would I have been questioned going on the track? Nope... but to me, thats no fair. I'd be passing everybody like they were standing still (749R against stock 600's) it wouldn't have been fun for me. I like the competition and if there is a class thats setup for my bike (middleweight twins) I'm gonna run it and enjoy myself.
Sorry Ben, my comment wasn't about you... I was just saying.
Every team cheats somehow. Look at AMA in 08, almost all the Suzuki's had works cranks and everybody shrugged??!?! WTF? I mean your a professional team and its illegal to have a works crank, but you had one? Thats not something you just put in and say "ohh, forgot to pull that out".
Ducati is the biggest cheater of them all, they get the rules changed in whatever series they ride. Last time I checked 1198cc twins were not legal in AMA until Ducati made one and pressured people to accept the new rules.
In some ways, I think cheating is part of the sport, all be it, in very small proportions. Personally, I'm not a cheater, but a lot of people pressured me to do the 848 kit in my 749R and ride it in a class that accepts 750's. Thats total bullshit, but ya know what? Had this been 3 years ago and EVERYBODY was doing that mod, I might not have been a choice. Had I wanted to win, I would have had to cheat like everybody else.
Anyhow, you can follow every rule to a T, but its very hard to. I was going to race superstock, but my bike is far from stock, so I decided not to. Would I have been questioned going on the track? Nope... but to me, thats no fair. I'd be passing everybody like they were standing still (749R against stock 600's) it wouldn't have been fun for me. I like the competition and if there is a class thats setup for my bike (middleweight twins) I'm gonna run it and enjoy myself.
SHHHHHHHHHHH! WAFI!!!!
__________________
91 851 Raymond Roche Racing
96 916
01 996
02 998R #454
02 998R #450
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat."
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