will the 748rs inlett cams and 748R exhaust cam work
togheter in a 853 kit, or will I need the rs exhaust cams as well.
(sending my head for gasflow/porting, removing taper in throttle bodys)
One of my inlett cams are defektive, and I can get 2 RS inlett cams for the price of one R cam. (will be running MBP collets)
Any thought about power gain running a mix of RS and R cams
Any suggestions ??
In the order of getting parts for my project.
I thinking of running a Motty AFR tuner with 2 lambda for fuel injection, with my FIM megazone EPM 748R for ignition. Motty has a selfmapping function.
Will use my AIM Mychron 3 dash speedsensor for Speed input.
(Posible to auto map for different gear and TPS),
The problem with putting RS cam's into an R motor is the shimming. The RS valves are actually slightly longer, its not very much, but its enough to throw things off. I actually ended up having this issue before with RS valves and couldn't get my R cam's to work properly, they just wouldn't shim without a lot of work that I wasn't willing to do!
We just had a thread about this very subject. In the past, I was always told the strada exhausts and R intakes, worked the best. Shorter duration, higher lift intake and longer duration, shorter lift exhaust, interesting combo and helps with bottom end. Anyhow, in the recent thread, that theory was kinda surpassed by what Brad and a few others said about the R cam's. Seems like the R's work great if you time them properly.
If your looking for performance gain's, the RS cam's really do help. They also destroy rockers and can easily break MBP collates just like the OEM one's. So you've gotta be careful about how you set it up, keep the clearances super tight and monitor them very regularly. The 00E's are the corse version, they're pretty destructive and have a gorgeous shelf on the openers! YEAY! Needless to say, they can add upwards of 10hp, but again, need to be monitored. They also have a less aggressive version (forgot the number) though I'm not sure of the performance spec over the 00E's.
Not to sound rude or arrogant (because that happens a lot) but why are you partaking on such a tremendous project?
You could spend every dime you have on a 748R and never get near the build quality of more modern testastreatta powered bike; 749R or 848. My 749R with zero motor mods, just tuned properly, should put out roughly 130rwhp in stock 750cc config. I've seen 848 kitted ones putting out 147rwhp with race fuel! My point is simple... the 748R is a great bike, but its old... Just my 2 cents... sorry.
I have extensive information about the cams, both measurements and actually using them.
What ruin engines is revs, so you want to make an engine that rev as little as possible, meaning not over 11k.
The 748rs have the excact same base circle as the 748r and strada cams, so there is no shimming issue.
(Tye, you have the same right to have an opinion but you are way off line. Those cams will not brake mbp collets, and they are not that agressive either. And please stop scaring people building desmoquattros, they are just fine if you do it right.)
A 748rs cam with 748r exhaust looks like the deal in my eyes.
The actual measured duration of 748rs was 276 degrees and the 748r exhaust was 278.
Most important 748rs intakes have a much better profile than 748r, 748r tend to open slow and although making almost the same stress to the valvetrain.
This is what the 748rs intakes and 748r exhaust combined look like when we checked them (no valve play):
Of corse the best option would be a 749R or (999R) or newer,
that would be the most sensible thing, but then again it fun not to be sensible all the time.
(Have a 996 engine in the bike now, (last 2 years), but seem to miss the
powercurve/and rpm of the R).
I was actualy planing to get a 853 kit(and porting 3 years ago), had some
"topend" problems with broken valves/cam, but stuck a 996 engine in the bike instead.
Mods so far : (2000R)
Suspsension : Olinsh shock, Showa kitted forks, Matris stearing damper
brakes : calipers from a 999, will get new master cylinder this winter
Engine :Kaemna (German) evo flywhel, corsa slipper clutch(bearng type with 749R alu plates).
Fairng : 998 RS with large airducts, large carbon airducts (Sebimoto to stock airbox, he he they needed a bit of fitting).
Front alu fairng stay. 1 50 mm cateye headlight with meckanical mainbeam dio)
Tank : 24 l alu tank (like the 916R, running stock fuel pump, and fitted the pressiure regulatur "inline outside the tank).
Instrumentation : Aim mychron 3 plus, (logging speed, rpm, engne temp, gear, exhaust gas temp, will be adding fuel pres, TPS, and lambda)
Exhaust : Full 52 mm
Engine this year : 853R -------------------->
Motty AFR tuner 2 lambda(automapping with seperate map for front/rear cylinder)
I have extensive information about the cams, both measurements and actually using them.
What ruin engines is revs, so you want to make an engine that rev as little as possible, meaning not over 11k.
The 748rs have the excact same base circle as the 748r and strada cams, so there is no shimming issue.
(Tye, you have the same right to have an opinion but you are way off line. Those cams will not brake mbp collets, and they are not that agressive either. And please stop scaring people building desmoquattros, they are just fine if you do it right.)
A 748rs cam with 748r exhaust looks like the deal in my eyes.
The actual measured duration of 748rs was 276 degrees and the 748r exhaust was 278.
Most important 748rs intakes have a much better profile than 748r, 748r tend to open slow and although making almost the same stress to the valvetrain.
This is what the 748rs intakes and 748r exhaust combined look like when we checked them (no valve play):
Those two combined will look like this
Hi Tom. Do you have a graph with 748RS inlet and 996sps inlet used as exhaust or even better can you put the sps cams over graph you have here?
What do you think would work best as exhaust together with 748RS ins? 748R exhaust or 996sps inlets as exhaust?
I have still not had time to install my 748RS cams yet so I am still not sure what combo I will use. Maybe next year.
Jocke.........
__________________
MHR 900 1984
851 Strada 1991 (now growing to 996)
S4 984 2002
I have extensive information about the cams, both measurements and actually using them.
What ruin engines is revs, so you want to make an engine that rev as little as possible, meaning not over 11k.
The 748rs have the excact same base circle as the 748r and strada cams, so there is no shimming issue.
(Tye, you have the same right to have an opinion but you are way off line. Those cams will not brake mbp collets, and they are not that agressive either. And please stop scaring people building desmoquattros, they are just fine if you do it right.)
A 748rs cam with 748r exhaust looks like the deal in my eyes.
The actual measured duration of 748rs was 276 degrees and the 748r exhaust was 278.
Most important 748rs intakes have a much better profile than 748r, 748r tend to open slow and although making almost the same stress to the valvetrain.
This is what the 748rs intakes and 748r exhaust combined look like when we checked them (no valve play):
Those two combined will look like this
I second everything tom says here. 748rs cams can go into any 4v head with no issues on shimming. If the closing shimming is tight even stock collets rarely break. i have seen zero damaged rockers using 748rs cams on engines and heads assembled by myself and tom has found the exact same thing. 748rs valves are the same length as the 748r. The 748bp and sps do have longer valves due to the smaller combustion chamber and again there is no shimming issue
__________________
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I just happen to race with 2 guys who use 748RS motors and both of them have broken MBP's before. Your right about the valves though, it was the strada vs R, not the R vs RS... woops, that was my mistake.
Anyhow, we all know, every single ducati motor is different no 2 are the same. So sure, you guys have never had an issue, to be honest, I've really personally never had an issue, but I've played witness to many issues. Maybe they're bad techs, perhaps they just had bad motors... who knows. Needless to say, the reality is. With RS cam's, you really need to rev the motor to the moon to get that extra power out of them and by doing so, shit fails quicker.
506 cams don't need to be revved high to make good power, the design of the engine as a whole is what dictates what rev range is suitable, they MAY be used in high reving engines, but the cam itself doesnt need it to work properly. The 506 is a fairly short cam with 276 duration and may very well be used in a standard revving engine.
So back to topic, 506 intake cam and OF exhaust in a 853 with R heads will work brilliant.
506 cams don't need to be revved high to make good power, the design of the engine as a whole is what dictates what rev range is suitable, they MAY be used in high reving engines, but the cam itself doesnt need it to work properly. The 506 is a fairly short cam with 276 duration and may very well be used in a standard revving engine.
So back to topic, 506 intake cam and OF exhaust in a 853 with R heads will work brilliant.
+1 dude
__________________
life is work
For Ducati engine blueprinting/crank balancing/performance cylinderhead prep/ porting / big valve conversions-www.cjsracing.co.uk
For 1st class dyno-tuning ,mapping, custom eproms- and a whole load of other cool stuff www.hypertrick.net
506 cams don't need to be revved high to make good power, the design of the engine as a whole is what dictates what rev range is suitable, they MAY be used in high reving engines, but the cam itself doesnt need it to work properly. The 506 is a fairly short cam with 276 duration and may very well be used in a standard revving engine.
So back to topic, 506 intake cam and OF exhaust in a 853 with R heads will work brilliant.
What is OF cams? Where are they coming from? Lift and duration please.
Jocke.........
__________________
MHR 900 1984
851 Strada 1991 (now growing to 996)
S4 984 2002
506 - found in 748rs as intake cams
OE - found in 748rs as exhaust cams
OF - intakes and exhaust cams found in 748r
T1 - intakes and exhaust cams found in 996sps
Jocke, email me at sdk and I answer your questions.
Just read the sigmaperformance 2000 748rs was deliverd with 00e Inletcams, and they were recomended to swap for the less agresive that cams was shipped with the bike(0e).
Are there 2 different types of 748 RS inlett cams ???
They form the Holland, and the have several sets of, RS cams
innlet and outlets. They do not spesify other than 748RS cams no numbers, cams are new from ducati corse.
Just read the sigmaperformance 2000 748rs was deliverd with 00e Inletcams, and they were recomended to swap for the less agresive that cams was shipped with the bike(0e).
Are there 2 different types of 748 RS inlett cams ???
They form the Holland, and the have several sets of, RS cams
innlet and outlets. They do not spesify other than 748RS cams no numbers, cams are new from ducati corse.
Thats what I was saying earlier, evidently the OE's are the ones to use, but the standard RS ones arn't labeled. The 506/0E combo are the ones that are OK to use, they don't have the shelf as Tom pointed out. But if you buy RS cam's, they might not be 506/0E combo, thats what I was trying to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomTom
506 cams don't need to be revved high to make good power, the design of the engine as a whole is what dictates what rev range is suitable, they MAY be used in high reving engines, but the cam itself doesnt need it to work properly. The 506 is a fairly short cam with 276 duration and may very well be used in a standard revving engine.
Of course you don't "have to" rev the motor to the moon with 506's, but that was the intention of the design. The real gains of those cam's, just like any RS cam, are up at the upper echelon. Will you see small increases @ 10k RPM, probably... But you'll see the most dramatic increase at 12,000 RPM.
You also have to remember that rs cams dont mean revs ! Revs are also goverened by port size and max airflow.
In a 750 the demands on a head is not that great so the bike will easily rev to 12.000pm holding on with power.
However sling rs cams into a standard valved ported 996 , the ports demads are greater. Meaning the power will nose over at 10.000 rpm when the head maxes out.
Rs cams dont mean revs ! The rs cams are good at making mid range power as they open fast and suck in huge chunks of air very quickly. It all depends on the final engine spec and application.
I have just built a 998 with rs cams. This bike wont need revving to 13000 to make power. The head flow and port size has been adjusted for the cam to peak at about 11.000rpm .
If the cams were fitted into an original high flowing big port 998rs then yes they would be needing 13.000 to see max power .
Applicaton and final spec is everything. Find a combination that works for you
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According To Desmoquatro Performnce Handbok There Are 3 Rs Grinds.
00e (very Violent Cam)
506
And The 0e
(we Are Just Talking About Inletts)
The Seller Has Them Both
506
And The
0e
Whats The Diffrense Between These Two ???
Eo
506 is the inlet from a 748rs
OE is the exhaust from a 748rs
Both great cams to use in any application.
Never seen OOE myself and dont know of anyone who has either
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life is work
For Ducati engine blueprinting/crank balancing/performance cylinderhead prep/ porting / big valve conversions-www.cjsracing.co.uk
For 1st class dyno-tuning ,mapping, custom eproms- and a whole load of other cool stuff www.hypertrick.net
ducati 853R cam options
Linear Mode
