Camshaft timing/angle on 999 '05

[MultiDoc]

Hello gents,

First post ever here and starting with a question

Anyway, I've read the tech articles on Moto One Performance about setting the timing of the cams on the 999.
From what I understand, the optimum suggested angle is to set them at 107/107 and now my question is this: should I go forth and set my cams like that ? Any other/better suggestion ?
Just in case you're wondering, I have a full 57mm asymmetrical Termi kit on, but no PCIII and when I last dynoed the bike it was 135rwhp @ 9750rpm (it's a 2005 model).

So what would you guys suggest for optimal (or close) tuning ?

Thanks in advance for your input.

P.S: I know I should get a PCIII or similar (like Nemesis
etc), but at the moment no more $$$ here to be spent

[TUONOS]

Originally Posted by MultiDoc

From what I understand, the optimum suggested angle is to set them at 107/107 and now my question is this: should I go forth and set my cams like that

Nick, this is the only suggestion I found myself when I was looking for it, like you do now, and this is what I actually did at the end. You can take my bike for a spin.

I believe Brad's recommendations are generally and widely accepted as the best ones out there.

Manolis

[MV-999R]

Hmmm..... anyone know if this 107/107 figure also aplies to a 749R?

[TUONOS]

Originally Posted by MV-999R

Hmmm..... anyone know if this 107/107 figure also aplies to a 749R?

I think so but I'm not 100% sure. You can ask Brad directly.

[MV-999R]

Originally Posted by TUONOS

I think so but I'm not 100% sure. You can ask Brad directly.

Thanks. Yeah, i'll do that

[MultiDoc]

Thanks for the reply, if I may ask one last (but still stupid) question.

What are the "stock" degrees for the 999 '05 ?

In any case I'll take Brad's suggestion and have my mechanic set up my cams to 107/107.

[TUONOS]

Originally Posted by MultiDoc

What are the "stock" degrees for the 999 '05 ?

112 inlet - 111 outlet

See Testastretta Table here (998S):

Moto One Performance Notebook - Ducati Cam Specs

[Ben710]

Nikos,

good man with the green skirt. My MY2006 999S workshop manual says:

timing values at 1mm valve play (dunno if play is the proper word)

intake

opens at 16° before OT
closes at 60! after OT

exhaust
opens 60° before OT
closes 18° after OT

Maybe that helps.

[Ben710]

Originally Posted by MultiDoc

P.S: I know I should get a PCIII or similar (like Nemesis
etc), but at the moment no more $$$ here to be spent

by the way, TomTom on this forum has a cool project coming along. he is very good with fueling. So if you don´t want to buy a PC3 or Nemesis, he probably can reprogram your stock ECU and adjust the fueling.

He is currently doing it to mine. Will have it back in the following days. I´m anxious to see how good the results are

[headstud]

[quote=TUONOS;506843]112 inlet - 111 outlet


FYI... I checked my '06 999S inlets recently. They were set with the factory tool and were at 114.5 on one and 117.5 on the other. There is considerable room for improvement!

[MV-999R]

Originally Posted by headstud

FYI... I checked my '06 999S inlets recently. They were set with the factory tool and were at 114.5 on one and 117.5 on the other. There is considerable room for improvement!

Did you checked that yourself?
How is that done and do you need any special tool?

[MV-999R]

Originally Posted by Ben710

by the way, TomTom on this forum has a cool project coming along. he is very good with fueling. So if you don´t want to buy a PC3 or Nemesis, he probably can reprogram your stock ECU and adjust the fueling.

He is currently doing it to mine. Will have it back in the following days. I´m anxious to see how good the results are

Yep, he did the same to mine.
I could clearly notice an improvment on the fuelling. Way to go Tom
Unfortunately i couldn't made any dyno runs afterwards because i had an engine problem (nothing related to the reprogramed ECU, though)

[TUONOS]

Originally Posted by headstud

FYI... I checked my '06 999S inlets recently. They were set with the factory tool and were at 114.5 on one and 117.5 on the other. There is considerable room for improvement!

Yes, they are very vaguely set from the factory, not even close to the "factory settings".

Well, I did to mine ('06 999) what Brad proposed (107/107), but because I also installed a light flywheel at the same time, I can't tell if that helped or not. It probably needs a custom PC map to compliment the timing but I haven't done it yet. I still have a generic map from Dynojet site on my PC.

Ben what gives with Tom's fueling. Can you be more specific? Time and cost?

[Ben710]

I´d like to leave that answer to himself if you don´t mind

[MV-999R]

Originally Posted by TUONOS

Yes, they are very vaguely set from the factory, not even close to the "factory settings".

Well, I did to mine ('06 999) what Brad proposed (107/107), but because I also installed a light flywheel at the same time, I can't tell if that helped or not. It probably needs a custom PC map to compliment the timing but I haven't done it yet. I still have a generic map from Dynojet site on my PC.

You did the cam timing yourself or had it done at the dealer?

[TUONOS]

Originally Posted by MV-999R

You did the cam timing yourself or had it done at the dealer?

The second.

[TomTom]

The distance tuning of the units is not fully evaluated yet so I'll be back in a week or two.
The Hypertrick website will have all the info with prices and return time plus tuning reports and other related stuff, be back on that.

For the cam timing this is what I use.
The jig is made for measuring from between the cams so that you don't have to remove the airbox, the Ducati tool measures from the outside.
To fix the jig I swapped the outer cam cap bolts to the ones from 999, straight swap.

[brad black]

the 107/107 timing is with the belts over tight, like the old style setting method. with the belts at running tension it's more like 105/109. it's not optimal, it's what i tried initially and it seemed to work. i didn't try any other testasretta timing. using the word optimal is a bit delusion to my mind. afaik i'm one of very few people to post any cam timing results with the numbers used, not alluding to secret specs or that bullshit, so my results get treated a bit too much like the truth. it's just an opinion.

later i was told ducati corse were specifying 4 degrees advanced/retarded for 998 superstock, making it 108/107. probably with running tension belts. 1098 superstock they're saying 103/108 i think.

some will tell you that it's very critical, but i think they're overestimating the whole cam timing thing. a couple of degrees either way doesn't make much difference, 5 is noticeable, 10 a decent change.

jmo.

[chris steedman]

On most of my motors i degree the exhausts on stock and just mess with the inlet cams. On a bike with standardish compression its generally accepted to advance the inlet as far as you can without loosing top end. On some of the G inlet cammed bikes built with a high compression i found retarding the inlet cam made more uppermid and top end. Had the same on a very high compression 996 biposto too.

The outcome seems to depend on compression ratio and port size. Bikes with big ports generally want more cam advance where smaller ports can use some retard to maintain VE. Brad has done a great job into investigating cam timings. If your bike is pretty much stock i would go with the inlet 108 as brad suggests .

[brad black]

i haven't done that much investigating really.

i've just done an 853 kitted 748R. first 853 kit of any sort we've fitted in the 14 years i've been at moto. with ported heads and running the 104/108 cam timing i use on 748cc 748R with inlet mods the power peaked at 122 at 10, tapered down to 120 at 11 and then fell away. i talked to the owner about this and he was happy to have the limiter pulled down to 11,200 and leave the cam timing at that. i'd expect taking the inlets back to 110 would hold the power better and possibly make a touch more, but it wasn't what he was after.

so intended application is important too.