Camshaft timing/angle on 999 '05

[departmentofsuspension]

I first ran my 999 with the OEM cam timing then the first time we went through the motor we went with 107/108. At that point it was just high comps and a 57mm system and a Corse ECU with a 12K limiter. Ran good, no complaints. The second time we went through the motor we went back to OEM timing but at that time I was running bigger high comps, modded combustion chambers, very, very tight squish and a 62mm system. The bike simply exploded off of apexes. It got your full attention and needed to be ridden hard to get the most out of it. If I did the timing again I would have gone toward something like 120/116 and tried that just to see what it would do.

[MultiDoc]

First of all thanks everyone for your advise and input . Especially Brad and Chris .

I will be doing the cams (as well as valves and a lot of other work) next week, so I have some clarifying questions.

Originally Posted by brad black

the 107/107 timing is with the belts over tight, like the old style setting method. with the belts at running tension it's more like 105/109

When you say "with the belts over tight" you mean that I over tighten the belts, then set the cams to 107/107 and after that I retighten the belts to the correct running values, is that correct ?

Also what do you propose to be better: set the cams to 107/107 with the cams over tight, or set them to 105/109 with the belts at spec tight ?

And last one: how is it best to get the "1mm valve lift" for the cams to be set ? (I guess that applies to all valves too, right ?)

Again thank you in advance for your time and help gents. I'm looking forward to get these straight and then proceed. I'll certainly post before/after dyno runs too once I have this done.

Cheers,

Doc

[desmo11]

"If I did the timing again I would have gone toward something like 120/116 and tried that just to see what it would do."

Have you been drinking?

What one must be particularly mindful of are the actual events (1mm lift points work well for this). Especially intake closing angle, also exhaust valve opening angle. Definitely the head porting plays into valve event selection (or cam timing), tuning also.

Bottom line though, if you can't calibrate your engine effectively to 1) not have drivability problems, and 2) set fuel values and spark to actually realize the potential of any mods, you're kidding yourself.

That said, I'd think 107/107 running timing would be fairly satisfactory.

[TomTom]

MultiDoc,

Try overtight 107/107, setting that should render 105/109 at running tension, or the other way around, samesame but different references.

You can measure the valve play at one of the two valves the cam is operating and then take away that from 1mm and you have the actual lift that corresponds to 1mm. Say you have 0.15mm then you look for timing at (1mm-0.15mm) 0.85mm.

[ElPrebZi]

My procedure is like this:

I Use a homemade degree wheel, where I marked the cam timing on, ie. 16 and 60. ( See pic)
If you the use the 0,85mm Tom wrote - you should be very close to the correct cam duration (256 degrees)

1. step - find TDC and align your degreewheel to 0 degrees

2. step - find the exact value ( 0,85mm Tom wrote is close) that gives you the cam duration of the actual cam you are measuring on.

I get 0,78 mm and 0,82 depending of the angel from my gauge compared to the valve angel. I can't messure on a 0 degree to the valve - the cam is in the way

3. Step - When you have this, use a removable marker or tape strips to mark your actual degree on opening and closing on the wheel.

Depending on the reference (overtight in my preferable way - as this gives a better feelling, and there is no "slack" in the belts) - and say you will move the timing from the OEM 112 to 107 - mark your degree wheel with 21 and 55 ( 5 degree advance)
4. step - rotate your engine to the new opening point ( 21 degree - remember to rotate the engine same way around as it runs)
5. step - Loosen the 3 screws in the can wheel (Testastretta only) and very gentle rotate the cam to you get the actual lift found under step 2.

6. Step - verify and redo if needed.

7. step - next cam

Good luck

[TrickLidz]

CHECKING CAM TIMING ON 4 VALVE DUCATI
Even though it's for an earlier engine, it should clear up some of the questions you have on the tightening of the belts prior to the check and how to get the 1mm lift. BTW: you should remove the valve lash with an appropriate feeler gauge first!!
It's all in the link.
Good Luck,
Tricklidz

[brad black]

i never bother with the clearances when checking timing. i just lift the valve with whatever clearance it has to 1mm from closed and read the timing at that. it's not like the clearance changes with opening as compared to closing. the variation in cam profile that the extra 0.1 or 0.2mm at either end of the lobe makes to the calculated centreline i'd think is negligible.

the belt tension thing is just a convention. i always do 2v at running tension, we always did 4v at over tight because that's what the books said. as the tensioing pulley is on the slack side of the belt (clockwise from the cam pullies), and the belts and cams rotate ccw, tightening the belt more than normal pulls everything clockwise a touch, which is in the retarded direction. when ever i've checked it, it's pretty much 2 degrees. so 107 tight is 105 loose on the inlet or 109 loose on the exhaust. all the 4v figures i post are with tight belts. i think it's to mimic the tension belts get when hot, but that's a bit unrealistic i think as the heads will move straight up and the timing won't really change. i think.

cam timing variations can really change the character of an engine, and can influence how it works in a given situation. there's every reason why a light wheel, light rotating mass engine'd bike might work better with retarded inlet timing, as it will reduce the midrange making it more manageable or easier on tyres while holding top end power longer. i expect most people racing 999, etc are tyre limited in most situations, especially driving out of corners. and with all the light weight bits you don't need the extra torque from the engine as it'll just hurt the rear tyre. or maybe less will help the rider not throw it away so often.

on the road bikes i always wanted to make the same or more peak power, but was never concerned with what happened after the peak - it's not really relevant on the road. on a race bike running to 12,000 then you need the power flat or flattish after the peak to be able to hold gears betweeen corners. advancing the inlet will often really kill that.

so application does have an influence. and if you don't try, you never know what the result is. like not checking your work, not being prepared to chuck stuff (money) away that looked like a good idea, etc.

[MultiDoc]

Originally Posted by TomTom

MultiDoc,

Try overtight 107/107, setting that should render 105/109 at running tension, or the other way around, samesame but different references.

You can measure the valve play at one of the two valves the cam is operating and then take away that from 1mm and you have the actual lift that corresponds to 1mm. Say you have 0.15mm then you look for timing at (1mm-0.15mm) 0.85mm.

Thanks a lot Tom .