Report on optimising 848 and 1098

[TomTom]

Just got back from the dyno after finishing mapping after cam timing on an 848 and a 1098.

Both bikes have full termis and DP ecu.

Yes, they are two different engines. The 848 had lousy timing map but good fuel and the 1098 vice versa.

Working on them was very nice, just one really annoying thing was the bracket that holds the fuel lines at the back of the airbox, other than that really nice, the cooler just folds away.

The cams on the 848 was actually pretty close to what I wanted, so one intake was advanced three degrees and the exhausts were advanced 3 degrees each. Pretty good from the ducati plant and not much to hope for in increase. The fuel map on the 848 was hard to improve on aswell, but a bit could be had in the dips. However ignition was pretty bad on it and the dip at 7k was enhanced and the topend got all the new ponies from change in advance. Extended the revlimiter and there was a few hp from that on top for another 500 rpm.

The 1098 gave better response to cam timing changes and had the exhaust cams spot on but the intakes were 113 and 114, advancing them to 105. The fuel was pretty bad and the topend got rounded nicely by some tinkering with the ignition. Mapping was done in the ecu directly.

I really maxed every setup so the values are real changes.

848 before after:



1098 Before versus after cam timing with original map, blue before red after:



1098 After cam timing, original map versus final result, blue before red after



1098 Before versus after, red before blue after:




Pretty good result from not buying any parts.


For the cam timing this is what I use.
The jig is made for measuring from between the cams so that you don't have to remove the airbox, the Ducati tool measures from the outside.
To fix the jig I swapped the outer cam cap bolts to the ones from 999, straight swap.

[mrgrn]

very nice, thanks for the post

looks like ducati did reasonable well though off the bat and i wonder how much will be had from the new 1098 with just larger cc's?

[desmo11]

Nice Tom!!!

One question, how come hp and N*m? I speak metric, but just never seen dyno plots with that combination of units! I guess it's just what one is used to! LOL!

[Old Baldy]

very nice work, Tom.

Always good to see "free" HP coming through like this, with just good tuning work to optimize a setup, rather than simply throwing more parts at it and hoping for improvements.

[drthompson65]

Cool post. Thanks!

[Ben710]

Hey Tom,

sweet post, thanks for sharing!

[TAftonomos]

Very impressive!

You said the mapping was done in the DP ECU? Is that something that the 999/monster s4rs ecu's are capable of (DP of course).

I was told 999 stuff is only trim-able across the board.

[brad black]

you're not getting all coy about the 5.9m mods now are you?

[Throttlestop]

Great post. Thanks for sharing.

[Dan Kyle]

Wow that looks like a lot of time and dyno runs were done. Thanks.

What does Ducati use as their stock specs for cam timing on the 1098 and 848??

[TomTom]

Got some more testastretta mapping done, this time in the form of Monster S4RS, its basically a 999 S-cammed engine with 50mm TB's so it's no big surprice it acts similar. Stock bike with Termi full system.

This one I didnt do the cams on, just mapping fuel and ignition, nothing mechanical touched.

Best of before vs after:




Now say you have a non mapped full system 1098 and this monster comes along and youre ready to fry the poor thing:



I'd expect the weight to be similar so youd have to smack the 1098 pony a fair couple of times to get by

And for Desmo11, torque in ft-lbs

[desmo11]

And for Desmo11, torque in ft-lbs

LOL!!

[departmentofsuspension]

Are going to try some cam timing on the 1098 to soften up the mid range and add some more up top? They have great midrange for a street bike because it’s like riding a big block. But on the track that torque and their horribly snatchy power delivery makes it really hard to get it off of the apex without grenading the rear tire or upsetting the chassis a lot. Not to mention they can’t finish a corner for poop anyway.

Have you done any testing to see where the power goes after 10,500rpm? The RPM range is really short at 10,500 and the power doesn’t flatten out enough to tell you it’s time to upshift so you end up banging into the limiter quite a bit. Another 1,000-1,500 RPM’s would be great if it flattened out up there (of course you would be adjusting the valves a little more). The added RPM’s would help out a ton with gearing too. The way the powerband works and the gear package in the trans forces the rider to shift it like a 600. I have to use all of the same shift points at Mid Ohio on the 1098 as I do with my R6. It’s a bit annoying to have all that grunt but still need to dance all over the lever. I can lap Mid O on my GSXR1000 and shift 5 fewer times than on the 1098. The shifting “economy” makes for a lot easier lap times.

I think for track bikes the above mods would net a huge improvement. I was going to spend some time this winter playing with the timing to see what I could get it to do but if you are already doing a bunch of testing and you have the time that may be one to add to the list. I could see a big market for someone that offered a cam timing service to make them easier to ride on the track.

Thanks for the info

[TomTom]

The 1098 in the report is the only one I've done so far so I need a few more to see how consistant they are.

I will do one with standard cam timing and see what comes out, and one with full acras aswell. Depending on what comes out of the first one the acra one will have the best of those options on cam timing. I will try and extend the revs a bit too and see if it keeps hanging on.