a couple slipper clutch questions...

hi everyone... first of all i'd like to introduce myself, my name is elson, i just picked up a 998 yellow about 2 weeks ago its so friggin sweet!! i'm actually friends with christian who is on this board. we were supposed to go ride today but didnt get a chance to because he dogged me just kiddin, next time dude, we gotta hook up!!

anyway... so the bike came with a slipper clutch. i took it to the local dealership and they mentioned that the clutch was slipping real bad, weird, i never noticed. so i had them take it apart and they told me that the slipper was installed INCORRECTLY!! they basically had to replace the basket with a light weight alloy one and replaced the clutch packs with aluminum type as well, barnett (sp)? they told me everything else with the clutch was fine and they're not sure what brand of slipper clutch it is... there were no engravings and nothing was stamped

question 1: is it common to install a slipper clutch wrong?? whats up with that??

question 2: as i work my way down the gears to 1st... during the downshifts i feel a significant amount of feedback through the clutch lever and into my left hand. and i can really hear and FEEL that sucker just BAM BAM BAM down. is this normal for slippers? maybe its because things are still new and breaking in? i wouldnt say it's a "violent" feel through the lever and into the hands, but its pretty damn close.

thanks everyone for the help!!

-Elson

1) If it was install by an amateur, then it is possible that it was installed wrong. When I 1st replaced my clutch, I didn't torque it correctly and it was hard to get neutral. I took it apart and I did torque it, and now it is way better than before.

2) Try to blip the throttle before you downshift. If I don't give it a quick blip (roll the throttle with the clutch engage to match RPMs and engine brake) I can feel a pretty good BAM from the clutch. If you do the blip it smoothens out the downshifting.

I have no experience with slipper clutches. So, I could be wrong. I am in the process of getting one though. Hopefully next month

According to Bruce at BCM, sometimes slipper clutches are installed improperly because the clutch pack is installed incorrectly. The first slipper clutch I had (Bucci) came with no directions and the mechanic installed the clutch pack as you would for a typical Ducati non-slipper dry clutch, which was backwards for the slipper clutch.

Having no experience with slipper clutches, I proceeded to ride the bike for 4,000 miles, taking my life in my hands every time I started off in 1st gear because the clutch would grab and it just didn't "sound" right. I kept thinking "Man, if this thing is this hard to launch on the street, what am I going to do if I ever race this bike and have to do a race launch? Those WSB guys must really be talented!"

Anyway, Bruce discovered the problem. The Bucci clutch basket was just about ready to fall apart. He replaced it with an STM clutch basket and an STM 48 tooth clutch pack, and everything is fine now.

I can't answer #1, but as for #2... I don't get hardly any feedback at all. In fact, if I didn't know I had a slipper clutch, I would just assume that over the winter I had transformed (while spending no time on the bike at all, understand) into a rider of Rossi-like abilities to match rpms with a blip on downshifting. Alas, that is not the case. Downshifts for me are totally seemless. I can blow the blip by a little, blow it by a lot, or not blip at all and it is all smooth as butter. I still do blip mostly because I think that has to be better for the lifespan of the slipper, but that is the only reason. There is only the slightest audible clicking as the slipper engages, and no nasty feedback at all through the lever. The clutch itself works just as good as the stock clutch in terms of upshifting and starting. The only time I get a small sensation is going from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st... I get a small "click"... the lever pulls in, "clicks" and has no resistance for about 2mm of pull, then pulls in normally again. I have heard this from a couple of other folks as well. Anyways, I love it. Best money I have spent on the bike.

Question 1. The clutch pack stack sequence is different. I have a Motowheels slipper that came with great installation instructions, but still, I called Stephano to make sure. I could tell he had been asked the same stupid question a zillion times.

Question 2. My slipper won’t do its thing on shifts below about 7 or 8 grand. Most street riding down shifts are below that and you still have to blip the throttle or do get a heavy chatter that you can feel back through the hydraulics. It’s the clutch trying to decide if it should slip or not.

After time you'll learn how to mess with the stack hight. Get out for some track time or hard canyon riding and you’ll love the thing.

Oh yeah... welcome to the madness.

998R and Mental998 - that is EXACTLY what the dealership told me about the way my slipper clutch was installed! It was installed as if it was a normal ducati clutch. And I had to get new plates and basket too, so I'm not the only one!!! Thanks for posting!!!

I rode into work today and after reading these posts... I don't think my situation is normal at all. it's a pretty harsh BANG BANG when going down on the gears, there is NO feedback when going from 6th to 5th and sometimes to 4th. but going from 4th to 3rd to 2nd to 1st, damn dude, it's almost violent and i feel sorry for the bike No matter how "soft" i tap down or how much i blip/rev match, it's still really harsh. I'll be taking it back to the dealer tomorrow hopefully we'll get to the bottom of this.

thanks everyone for the input!

if it is red anodized, and sans-engraving, it may be the Ducati slipper that is in the Ducati Performance catalog.

Well I hope hey get it sorted out soon because the weather is just AWESOME right now.. geez.. it's like a perfect summer day for a ride. I just wish it was not Monday..

well everyone, thought i'd update you guys on this just in case someone with a slipper clutch has the same questions as me....

I talked to the dealership and they told me that the feedback through the clutch lever was indeed NORMAL for slipper clutches. one of the tech's told me that he rode a 998 prior to mine with a slipper and it had the same behavior, hard knock that you can feel through the clutch lever upon down shifts from 5,4,3,2,1.

but from reading 999Apparition's post... kinda makes me wonder still but then again i'm assuming you have a 999 with a slipper? maybe that's why you dont feel that feedback?

regardless, i'm just going to ride it, enjoy it, try to ignore the bang in my hands on downshifts and see how it goes. hopefully things stay together.

thanks again everyone for the advice and if anyone else with a slipper has the same feedback in their clutch levers, please post!!!

Yes, 999 with a slipper. It is the same model that was in the DP catalog with the red pressure plate, no lettering or engraving, made from Ergal (aluminum). It has ramps with bearings, which I think is supposed to make it smoother. Also DP carbon clutch plates.

[/QUOTE]thanks again everyone for the advice and if anyone else with a slipper has the same feedback in their clutch levers, please post!!! [/QUOTE]



<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mental998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Question 2. My slipper won’t do its thing on shifts below about 7 or 8 grand. Most street riding down shifts are below that and you still have to blip the throttle or (you) do get a heavy chatter that you can feel back through the hydraulics. It’s the clutch trying to decide if it should slip or not. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Ooooh sure... I see how it's gonna be. If it's info from the "mental" dude, you won't listen. Now my feelings are hurt.

I'm sure I will need to up my med dose for the evening... maybe the whole week.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mental998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[/QUOTE]thanks again everyone for the advice and if anyone else with a slipper has the same feedback in their clutch levers, please post!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>



Ooooh sure... I see how it's gonna be. If it's info from the "mental" dude, you won't listen. Now my feelings are hurt.

I'm sure I will need to up my med dose for the evening... maybe the whole week.


[/QUOTE]

Great Layne, scare the new guy off

Just for the record, I had to do some homework before I went riding. By the time I was out on the streets, someone had to see his girlfriend...

I hate to sound really stupid, but what does the slipper clutch acutally do on the street other than slip the clutch? I was told that I didn't really need one since I don't race my bike. Did I not get the memo you guys got?

Thanks for reading my post, and if anyone else has comments about slipper clutches, please post...

All the ramped slipper clutches (STM, BUCCI, DP,Motowheels...) have lever feedback except the Surflex slipper clutch.

If you ride fast (street or track), the slipper clutch is a good thing to have. It's like ABS for your drivetrain. If you never get any wheel hop when you grab a bunch of gears, then you probably don't need one. But it's kind of like a helmet--you can't put it on while your back end is crossed up.

The slipper will let you choose the gear you want with very little drama. Most slippers are about 6 pounds lighter than stock--so you feel the difference even if you ride around in one gear.

hahaha, sorry mental... didn't mean to offend you. but when i read your post you mentioned that if you didn't blip the throttle then you got some "chatter" like feedback. however, regardless of blipping the throttle or not, no matter what rpm's i'm at, i get a hard "hit" in the clutch lever, i guess you could call it a chatter but not the first thing that came to my mind.

anyway, i must have read your post about 10 times to make my self feel better about this weird feedback through the lever. see i'm trying to convince myself that i'm not the only one feeling this on a slipper clutch

sounds like you're a local WA dude... if you're ever in the area, i'd be cool if you could try it out and compare to your slipper.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mental998 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">[/QUOTE]thanks again everyone for the advice and if anyone else with a slipper has the same feedback in their clutch levers, please post!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>



Ooooh sure... I see how it's gonna be. If it's info from the "mental" dude, you won't listen. Now my feelings are hurt.

I'm sure I will need to up my med dose for the evening... maybe the whole week.


[/QUOTE]

"sounds like you're a local WA dude... if you're ever in the area, it'd be cool if you could try it out and compare to your slipper."

I would be more than happy to ride your or anyone elses bike to compare stuff. I do require a full tank of gas and a map of how to get to your best local twisties... and some lunch money.

If it's not too hot out, I'll let you slide on providing an umbrella girl.

Layne I have a motowheel slippper clutch like yours and it's beginning to slip or jutter on acceleration. What is the clutch stacking height that you would recommend?
Thankx
Anhtuan

Quote: After time you'll learn how to mess with the stack hight. Get out for some track time or hard canyon riding and you’ll love the thing.

My stack height or anyone else’s stack height really isn’t going to do you any good. They change depending on how you ride and how you like the clutch to react.

That said, what I do is measure from a consistent point each time I change it. I use the depth probe off the end of my caliper: from the face of the pressure plate to the face of the drum. You typically make changes in .5 mm, because that’s what you get to work with in the steel plates. I keep all my old friction plates for times that I might be looking for something in-between.



You can see ( I hope) where the red anodizing is wore off the fingers of the clutch basket. That’s the difference between what’s right for me and just about “screwing the pooch� on stack height.



If you’re slipping during acceleration, remove one of the 2mm steel plates and replace it with a 1.5mm. Keep working your way down in .5mm increments until you're ahppy.

If your clutch pack is too used up, you may have to cowboy-up and buy a new one.

Hope this helps....