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Old 01-02-2006, 07:33 PM
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Default 748 Spring replacment?

I would like to replace the springs on my 00 748bp. I wiegh 230 pounds and I believe the stock shocks are for a 180lbs rider.

So my questions are

1. What spring do I need? (mainly track riding with a little street now and then)
2. Will I need any special tools to change the spring?
3. Will i need to do anything with the shocks other than normal adjustments? I would prefer to do this while it's off the bike if I need to do anything.

I appreciate any help and advice given. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-02-2006, 11:32 PM
paulo57509 paulo57509 is offline
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I'm not a suspension expert.

I'm going to assume you have the stock Showa shock and fork.
Check here:

http://www.racetech.com/evalving/english/Srchpr.asp?bikeid=71&manufacture=Ducati&model=748& year=97%2D01&TABLEINFO=street&langname=english

Click on the custom spring calculator. This should give you a place to start.
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Old 01-03-2006, 01:21 AM
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According to that site the stock setting is 1.020 kg/mm

For my wieght it suggests 0.976 for street and 1.041 for racing. That would seem to put my stock spring right between the 2 (wich is what I was looking for) That just doesn't seem right. Hopefully someone with more suspension experience (paging section8..section8 there is a call for you) will post up

Thank you for the site though
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Old 01-03-2006, 02:32 AM
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What's confusing is that Race-Tech considers the stock front springs too stiff, whereas Traxxion says they're OK for 160 lb rider. Go figure.

The rear spring needs to be changed (according to Ohlins) to a stiffer 1091-26 (8.7 kg/mm) unit for your weight + gear + half tank of gas.

What it really boils down to is selecting springs that give you the proper amount of sag.



Spring Preload Adjusters - What ARE They For?

My Ducati superbike has these things called preload adjusters and I’ve been trying to figure out what they do and (if I twiddle with them) what good or bad things to expect.

My 916 monoposto Owners Manual tells me that the front spring preload adjusters are set at the factory at 20mm (three lines showing) but can be adjusted for a range of values between 25mm (less preload) and 10mm (more preload.) Ducati makes no mention of why this adjustment is provided or needed, however.

The Manual also tells me that the rear spring preload adjustment is made by turning a ring nut on the shock, that shortens and compresses the spring. According to my Haynes Manual, no standard spring preload setting is specified by Ducati for pre-2000 models, but for 2000-on a standard compressed spring length of 151mm (Ohlins) or 160mm (Showa) is specified. So?

Further, in magazine road tests the rear spring preload setting is sometimes expressed as mm of thread showing above the top (locking) ring nut - the more thread showing, the more preload. Or, it’s effect is described - mm of sag.

I do know that all the Biposto Owners Manuals say that the rear spring should be set to its maximum preload when carrying luggage and a passenger in order to retain the loaded bike’s handling and ground clearance. They mention also that the shock’s rebound damping will also need to be increased to accommodate the increase in working forces in the preloaded spring.

Apparently that’s it. Ducati states that rear spring preload is to be used for maintaining ride height (ground clearance) when temporarily carrying extra weight. Maintaining the correct ride height preserves the height of the bike’s center of gravity, ground clearance and the angle of the front fork.

So it’s therefore interesting to me to read magazine road tests that suggest front preload settings that vary from three to seven lines showing and rear preload settings from 22mm to 13mm of threads showing. So why the variation?

Well, one reason that comes to mind is the (usually unstated) variation in body-weight of the different test riders. Instead of changing to stiffer front and rear springs, the (heavier than 160 lb.) test riders use additional preload to temporarily recover ride height until the road test is completed.

Q. So, is this really the proper use of the preload adjusters, and if so, why bother changing springs at all for heavier or lighter riders?

The only answer I can come up with is that the preload adjusters will allow you to maintain ride height - but not the correct sag. So I guess we need to discuss sag.

Sag - Do I Want To?

The only reason that there’s different stiffness springs available to match-up to different rider body-weights is so that every rider sags the same amount. Seems only fair to me.

Sag is the amount of suspension travel used-up to support the weight of the bike and rider. Experience has shown that about 1/3 of the available suspension travel (spring compression) should be used initially to avoid both bottoming-out and topping-out the suspension during most riding conditions.

According to the Haynes manual a Ducati superbike has both a fork travel and rear wheel travel of 130mm. That’s why Ohlins recommends 40-45mm (1/3 X 130mm) of front and rear sag for street riding, a little less for track conditions.

Remember that he stiffness of stock Ducati springs are selected to sag this 1/3 amount for a 160 lb. rider. The ride height (that affects handling) is based on this amount of sag.

So, if a much heavier rider sits on a superbike it sags more, the ride height is too low and the spring will bottom-out (over bumps and during braking) more often. It’ll need a stiffer spring to reduce sag and meet Ducati’s ride height spec.

Similarly, if a much lighter rider sits on a bike it sags less than desired, the ride height is too high and the spring will top-out more often. It’ll need a softer spring to increase sag and reduce ride height.

But, if you just ate too many pies over the holidays, or just put in a lighter battery for the track, the smaller weight change won’t warrant a new set of springs.

Here’s when your preload adjusters become useful. Crank in a little more or a little less preload to regain (or just change) your ride height. You’ll loose or gain a little sag and available suspension travel. When it becomes more than a little you need to change springs. Kind of like a fine and coarse adjustment.

Of corsa, if you just want to change ride height without changing sag you can simply raise the rear ride height by increasing the length of the adjustable connecting rod and change the front ride height by changing the forks position in the yokes.

Last edited by Shazaam! : 01-03-2006 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 01-03-2006, 04:16 AM
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Thanks Shazaam....I think I'll have to borrow somone who knows what they are doing for the initial work. I have a hard time grasping things like this when just reading about them. It really helps me to see things done and see how they work together.

I deff think the springs on it now are too soft. I tend to bottom out on speed bumps doing all of 20mph. I have bottomoed out during hard braking if there are bumps in the road as well.

My other plan is to lighten the rider to put less wieght on the shocks
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Old 01-03-2006, 04:21 AM
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I have some spring charts here.

Forks
http://www.section8superbike.com/fork.php

Shock
http://www.section8superbike.com/shockspring.php

This should cover everything as far as springs go.

Have you put a zip tie on your fork slider to verify that you are bottoming the forks?
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Old 01-03-2006, 06:13 AM
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OK so it looks like my springs are fine...but I need to adjust my shocks. That I can handle on my own ( I hope )

I havent done the zip tie thing yet. I'll do a search on how / what to do.

I'm want to get the suspension dialed in and be a better rider before I worry about trying to make more power. Thanks for all the info guys.
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Old 01-03-2006, 07:18 AM
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I've had good luck with Lindeman Engineering in CA at www.le-suspension.com. They also sell titanium springs from Renton Coil Springs, www.coilspring.com.
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Old 01-03-2006, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drnknmnky13
OK so it looks like my springs are fine...but I need to adjust my shocks. That I can handle on my own ( I hope )

I havent done the zip tie thing yet. I'll do a search on how / what to do.

I'm want to get the suspension dialed in and be a better rider before I worry about trying to make more power. Thanks for all the info guys.
You most likely need a shock spring, but I imagine the fork springs are OK.

The zip tie thing is:

Put a zip tie arround the fork slider, cut off the excess to it's just like a ring arround the tube. Push it up so it touches the dust seal and then go for a ride. When you ride the zip tie will be pushed down which will in turn let you know how much travel you are using. If you are bottoming the forks out the zip tie will be touching the fork foot (the part that holds the axel and brake).
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Old 01-03-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section8superbike
If you are bottoming the forks out the zip tie will be touching the fork foot (the part that holds the axel and brake).
Jason, sorry to take you out of context here.

Is this universally true for all Showa forks on Ducatis?

It's not true for the KYB forks on my Kawasaki. I was bottoming hard on that bike, yet the zip tie would still be a few mm above the fork bottom.
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Old 01-04-2006, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section8superbike
You most likely need a shock spring, but I imagine the fork springs are OK.

The zip tie thing is:

Put a zip tie arround the fork slider, cut off the excess to it's just like a ring arround the tube. Push it up so it touches the dust seal and then go for a ride. When you ride the zip tie will be pushed down which will in turn let you know how much travel you are using. If you are bottoming the forks out the zip tie will be touching the fork foot (the part that holds the axel and brake).
I'll do that as soon as the weather makes it possible to go for a ride. Is there a guide for shock springs so I know what tension to get? I was hoping to do most of the work myself over the winter. Thanks for all the input guys. You all rock. <img>
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Old 01-04-2006, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acruhl

It's not true for the KYB forks on my Kawasaki. I was bottoming hard on that bike, yet the zip tie would still be a few mm above the fork bottom.
Some forks are like this. My GSXR1000 would bottom and the zip tie was still a few mm off of the bottom.
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Old 01-04-2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drnknmnky13
I'll do that as soon as the weather makes it possible to go for a ride. Is there a guide for shock springs so I know what tension to get? I was hoping to do most of the work myself over the winter. Thanks for all the input guys. You all rock. <img>
Right here http://www.section8superbike.com/shockspring.php
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