Some questions.
(1) I asked this before and I forgot the answer. On a S4 2002 what idle setting should I have on the TPS. I have heard alot of different valeus. I bought a technoresearch diagnostic tool so now I can actualy measure degrees so I dont need the voltage.
(2) People are talking about Mathesis tuning of the ECU.
If I understand correctly you do like this. Correct me if I am wrong. Open up the bleedair screws more then normal (and balance) to increase the airflow. Reduce the idle adjustment on the butterfly stop screw to give the correct CO and finaly adjust up the CO with the idle trimmer. Is this correct or wrong?
(3) What Idle mixture should I have? I do not have a CO meter but I have a Lambda meter. What is 5% CO in mixture? Is that 13/1?
(4) What target should I have for mixture during normal driving (crusing) and WOT? I have probes in the headers so I can measure the cylinders separatly. Is 13/1 good here or something different like 12/1 or 13,5/1
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (vij)
1/ 1.8 degrees. the st4 has a usa spec of 2.4 degrees, but the s4 has no usa or swiss spec. set it and don't touch it again.
2/ you set the idle speed as desired using the air bleeds. you then check the idle mixture in each header and set it using the mathesis trimmer as required. if there is a variation between the headers you choose a mid point trim and use the air bleeds to balance the idle mixture. this will offset the idle balance - don't worry about it.
3/ closer to mid 12 i think.
4/ i use 14 for low throttle tapering down to 12.5 or so at wot. try it out and see what you like.
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (Speeddog830)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speeddog830 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What would that 1.8 degrees correspond to as far as voltage or resistance at the TPS?
No Technoresearch or Mathesis in my garage...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I will check it out. I am a bit buissy for the moment so just give me a few days and I will let you know.
i think (could be wrong) duane's point is that the idle voltage setting bears no relevance to the voltage at throttle fully closed as delivered, which is meant to be 150mv, but varies from 50 to 130 usually. the base tps setting of 150mv is a procedure synchronising the throttle blade and tps at the point specified by weber marelli. one of those basic procedures all about repeatability and consistancy.
setting the idle throttle setting by degrees is much more accurate, but for years we set the 916 to 300mv idle setting after doing the 150mv base and they were fine. that's about 1.7 degrees theoretically. anything close to that followed by an idle mixture setting using a gas analyser will be better than many run.
A while back, before I knew better, I adjusted the 'idle screw'...no idea what voltage I'm at now..
I just checked my service manual. I swore when I looked at it before that it basically said to adjust using the mathesis tester to some unitless value.
It quite clearly states that the voltage should be 150mV +/-15 with the throttle blades 'bottomed out' on the throttle body, IE the stop screw is backed out until it's clear.
Then the stop screw should be adjusted until the mathesis reads 1.8 (assuming that's degrees?) or 345mV. Then match vacuum at high idle with the air screws closed, yadda yadda....
I was connecting the Technoresearch tool diagnostic tool and a multimeter to the bike today to check degress/Voltage at the TPS and here are the result.
It looks like your 0º mV was near 180mV? And the 345mV that the manual calls 1.8º, is also much higher (but Brad's 300mV=1.7º is right on). What am I missing here?
btw, I tried 1.8º for my idle setting yesterday. No way. I bumped it up to 2.4 and it is ok (kinda). Of course, I don't have any way to measure my idle CO, and I have corse valve springs, so it certainly could be me. I varied the trimmer from 10-60. Seems best at around 30-40. Screws are out 1/2 and 3/4 turns.
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (Speeddog830)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speeddog830 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What would that 1.8 degrees correspond to as far as voltage or resistance at the TPS?
No Technoresearch or Mathesis in my garage...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Nick, if you want (and you remind me), I'll bring Technoresearch tool with me to Ducman851's Daytona party.
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (infoage1)
Thanks, Tom, that'd be really cool. I'm hoping we don't have to charter boats to get down there
From Jocke's detailed data, it appears he can't have both 150 mV at 0 degrees and 345mV at 1.8 degrees. The slope won't work. This is assuming that Technoresearch and Ducati agree on the definition of 'degrees'....
Which setting is more important, the 150mV at 0 degrees or or 345mV at idle?
Tom, seems like your bike likes the Technoresearch 2.4 degrees, which is roughly 360mV from Jocke's data. You've got the SPS cams, right?
usually it's not consistant - the degree setting is based on the voltage the tps gets back to the ecu, and aloowing for all sorts of voltage drops, etc, it's usually different to some extent for each bike. just the way it is.
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (Speeddog830)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speeddog830 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks, Tom, that'd be really cool. I'm hoping we don't have to charter boats to get down there
From Jocke's detailed data, it appears he can't have both 150 mV at 0 degrees and 345mV at 1.8 degrees. The slope won't work. This is assuming that Technoresearch and Ducati agree on the definition of 'degrees'....
Which setting is more important, the 150mV at 0 degrees or or 345mV at idle?
Tom, seems like your bike likes the Technoresearch 2.4 degrees, which is roughly 360mV from Jocke's data. You've got the SPS cams, right?
Jocke, have you modified your S4? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I will recheck it with another multimeter. The one I used is maybe not the most accurate one. I will bring my calibrated work multimeter and try that one. The fun thing was that with 150mv it indicates 0 degress also. I dont think that the diagnostic tool is wrong because that one is only reading a computer bus and not a voltage or maybe it converts it wrong.
My bike just received SPS cams , ST4 exhaust and will be mapped as son as the snow melts. I was setting the cams to 107/107 to start with to see how it works. Then later I might try 114/107 just for fun. It sounds like 107/107 is the thing to have for more grunt and that is what I want.
I was checking the fuelinjectors with the technoreserch tool and found that it looks like my bike has the injectors connected wrong between front and rear from factory. When I test ignition coil 1 the front cylinder sparks but when I try injector 1 the rear cylinder is spraying. I know for sure that I did not mix it up as I was identifing them before disconnection. Can someone that have a technoreserch tool confirm that when you test injector 1 that it is the front one that should spray. Maybe technoreserch got it wrong.
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (vij)
Jocke,
Sounds good.
By the way, does the ST4 exhaust bolt right up, or does it need modification to fit the S4? I've been contemplating getting one for my bike. I'm not concerned about the fit relative to the mufflers, as I've got plans to fab something different there.
Maybe Tom can confirm the situation on which injector is which....
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (vij)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vij »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I will recheck it with another multimeter. The one I used is maybe not the most accurate one. I will bring my calibrated work multimeter and try that one. The fun thing was that with 150mv it indicates 0 degress also. I dont think that the diagnostic tool is wrong because that one is only reading a computer bus and not a voltage or maybe it converts it wrong.
My bike just received SPS cams , ST4 exhaust and will be mapped as son as the snow melts. I was setting the cams to 107/107 to start with to see how it works. Then later I might try 114/107 just for fun. It sounds like 107/107 is the thing to have for more grunt and that is what I want.
I was checking the fuelinjectors with the technoreserch tool and found that it looks like my bike has the injectors connected wrong between front and rear from factory. When I test ignition coil 1 the front cylinder sparks but when I try injector 1 the rear cylinder is spraying. I know for sure that I did not mix it up as I was identifing them before disconnection. Can someone that have a technoreserch tool confirm that when you test injector 1 that it is the front one that should spray. Maybe technoreserch got it wrong.
Jocke.........</TD></TR></TABLE>
I just checked, and injector 1 is the front, 2 the rear. I didn't check the coils. I am using the PDA version (Windows CE/DELL). You might look to see if you have the lastest Techno version software. I had an earlier Techno PC version for a while, and had some problems with keeping it connected.
Also, my TPS reads .1 - .2 degrees less from cold to hot...
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (Speeddog830)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speeddog830 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jocke,
Sounds good.
By the way, does the ST4 exhaust bolt right up, or does it need modification to fit the S4? I've been contemplating getting one for my bike. I'm not concerned about the fit relative to the mufflers, as I've got plans to fab something different there.
Maybe Tom can confirm the situation on which injector is which....</TD></TR></TABLE>
St4 headers bolts straight on but you need to get some new attachments for the mufflers. I bought headers and mufflers at ebay. 100 Euros (130dollars) for headers and 200 Euros (260 dollars) for silmoto aluminium mufflers. The only thing is that the ST4 mufflers are a bit bigger (looks a bit to big for my taste) so I cutted the 70mm to look a bit nicer.
You can take a look at Brads tuning pages about his 851 and 888 projects to get some more information about his bench runs with ST4 headers. Interesting reading.
Re: TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel (Speeddog830)
Just remeber that ST4 headers need ST4 mufflers. Monster mufflers does not fit as the connection for the mufflers are before the 90 degres bend on ST4 and not after as on a monster.
Look at http://speedzilla.zeroforum.co...age=1
and you will se the difference.
TPS setting, mathesis tuning again and Idle fuel
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